Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

Need some suggestions

We have a 2001 Fisher 1700 with 50 Mercury ELPTO. 2 stroke

We had the carbs rebuilt by a shop in Oct 08, it just has not run right, we took it back a couple times. But still didnt work right, (We only took the boat to this place because, we needed it asap for camping trip, what a mistake that was).

So took it to another, (we have been to them several times in the past with old boat before this one so we trust them) They said, by the looks of the carbs, they were never rebuilt. So we paid another $600 for the carbs to be rebuilt again, they said they would go with us to court to sue the other shop if need be.

Any way, we got the boat back after 2 weeks. We took it on another camping trip for 5 days, the minute it started, it sounded like my old boat, so quiet, you cant tell its running, It ran perfect , so good in fact, we ran out a 20 gallon tank of gas and had to troll to the dock.

We flushed the engine as soon as we took it out of the water, and again when we got home. This was 2 weeks ago.

This weekend took boat out, filled with high grade gas and it now runs like crap again!

I called the shop, they said to bring it in and they wouldnt charge to look at it but sounds like carbs need to be cleaned. And would charge for that.

Im really at a loss here. We have never had carb problems. We could always just crank and go, it was so reliable. So why all the problems?

I heard that the ethanol in the gas is causing problems. Is that what's causing my carb problems? If so, should they be able to be cleaned and not rebuilt after just 2 weeks and 2 uses? How much should this cost. I know his labor is $95 hour.

And what do we do so this dont happen every time we use it. I want my great running boat back.

Please advise

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

your right carbs shouldn't have to cleaned or rebuilt for a long time inbetween may once every couple of years. if done right the first time almost never if it hasn't set for a long period of time. however you may have picked up trash both time if you ran it out of gas. if there was even a lit trash in bboat tank, or gas station pumps, or may just try some carb cleaner that you add ro fuel mix and stabilizer. let us know results

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the reply.

We usually pull it out of the garage every month and crank it up and let it run with the hose attachment for a while during the winter months, and DH takes it out at least once a month during the summer. So I dont think its sitting to long, right.

TA Mahoney told us to put on a clear glass inline filter, we did, and he said to use some blue stuff, Enzyme stuff Star tron I think it was, and we would see it clear up, we did, it went from dark orange to lite yellow clear, but it didnt help so we took it to the shop and had the carbs re- rebuilt. And this guy took off the glass tube filter, said they get to much air. I still have it, should I put it back on?

So I guess if this guy did the carb rebuild right (as it was running perfect before new gas), and its just dirty, then I should just be able to put that stuff in and it will run better. Or do I still need to take it to the shop.

Sorry to ask so many questions, I just cant afford to get screwed over after 2 $600 carb rebuilds in 6 months.

We have to camping fishing trips scheduled and need this boat running perfect again.

Thanks for the help
Sharon

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

well you could clean them. Going out on a branch here,i see sharon, none of my business, but you are a female? right? please correct me if i am wrong. a lot of guys (mechanics) see a women walk in to a shop and see easy money. So i would try to clean the my self or get a freind to help.

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

Is this a Classic 50 4 Cyl?

Somebody is padding his repair time, 2 1/2 hours is about all it should take to re-clean those carbs, and no parts if he is careful.

But that would only be treating the symptoms of your real problem.

Either gunk accumulated in the tank, and/or alcohol deteriorating the inside of the fuel lines, either or BOTH will again cause carb problems as soon as you run the boat.

Change all fuel lines, and install a water separating fuel filter, THEN have a long talk with your mechanic about keeping your business. He should have suggested this PRIOR to cleaning your carbs after the first shop missed the problem.

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

CharlieB said:

Is this a Classic 50 4 Cyl?

Somebody is padding his repair time, 2 1/2 hours is about all it should take to re-clean those carbs, and no parts if he is careful.

But that would only be treating the symptoms of your real problem.

Either gunk accumulated in the tank, and/or alcohol deteriorating the inside of the fuel lines, either or BOTH will again cause carb problems as soon as you run the boat.

Change all fuel lines, and install a water separating fuel filter, THEN have a long talk with your mechanic about keeping your business. He should have suggested this PRIOR to cleaning your carbs after the first shop missed the problem.

Click to expand...

I agree. You're getting something in the carbs that plug them up. Either the tank is deteriorating, hoses are deteriorating, you got some bad gas, or someone is sabotaging your boat. (Worst one I saw, the kids in the neighborhood were playing "gas station" and putting dirt in the gas tank.)

In addition to Charlie's suggestions, I would pull all the fuel out of the tank, and I would examine it. The first gallon or so would go into glass jars so I could look at it.

I wouldn't try to clean/treat crappy fuel and put it through an expensive engine.

The cost of a big (60 gph) Racor fuel filter/water separator is pretty minimal compared to what you've been through.

You may find that you got a little water in alcohol adulterated fuel (normal pump fuel) and it settled out, bacteria grew in the water, formed a sludge, and it's fuddling up your motor. Easiest fix is to pay an extra 20 cents a gallon for non-oxygenated (colector vehicle, 92 octane) gas.

And if your fuel sits for long in the boat, throw in the prescribed amount of fuel stabilizer (Stabil). Costs less than a dime a gallon, prevents polymerization (varnish formation) for about a year.

hope it helps
John

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

rosser1 said:

well you could clean them. Going out on a branch here,i see sharon, none of my business, but you are a female? right? please correct me if i am wrong. a lot of guys (mechanics) see a women walk in to a shop and see easy money. So i would try to clean the my self or get a freind to help.

Click to expand...

LOL!, Yep, female. Im the "Do-It-Herselfer" in this house. But, I own my own power tools and know how to use them, and can build just about any thing, Heck, I just totally restored my new to me vintage 85 Coleman Chesapeake pop up camper. And have to take the back end off this week, to repair as Dang DH dented it up 2nd trip out.
http://campingandgardening.blogspot.com/ if you want to take a look, and more pics are in webshots on the right side of the blog.

I just cleaned the carb on my sears mower but this is a several thousand dollar boat we are talking about.

Now. I know how those men are, so I dont take it to the shop. I do have DH take it. We just are not familiar with all these boat issues as the boat has run perfect for the past 7 years, we have done the normal tune ups at the shop and stuff. Just recently the carb issues are a bit much. So want to know what to expect when we take it in.

I have the repair manual for it, so think I will give it a read, and put some stuff in the gas and see what happens.

Thanks again for the help.

Sharon

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

Thanks John,

Before we took it to the shop second time for 2nd rebuild. We did change the fuel line that goes to from the take to the engine, the one with the bulb. And also replaced the gas line inside, as we put on the clear glass filter, and had to rearrange a longer hose, We also replaced the water hose that goes to the pee hole as well.

The only thing we have not done is clean the tank which I think just might be the problem, now that I think about it. I had similar problems one of my old broncos, that was easy to take out and change, so this cant be much harder.

Also, after we got it back and it ran perfect or 5 days straight, didnt run completely out of gas, but it was at the bottom, so im sure it could of sucked some stuff up. Before DH took it out, He figured it ran so good, he better put the good stuff in, so he did, and this is were the problem started, so not sure if it was do to stuff in the tank or water in the fuel.

So now that I have an idea, I will get on it, and check it out and see if I can find some thing in the tank and clean it. And look at the manual before I take it back to the shop.

Thanks again,
Sharon

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

rsmobley85 said:

Thanks John,

Before we took it to the shop second time for 2nd rebuild. We did change the fuel line that goes to from the take to the engine, the one with the bulb. And also replaced the gas line inside, as we put on the clear glass filter, and had to rearrange a longer hose, We also replaced the water hose that goes to the pee hole as well.

The only thing we have not done is clean the tank which I think just might be the problem, now that I think about it. I had similar problems one of my old broncos, that was easy to take out and change, so this cant be much harder.

Also, after we got it back and it ran perfect or 5 days straight, didnt run completely out of gas, but it was at the bottom, so im sure it could of sucked some stuff up. Before DH took it out, He figured it ran so good, he better put the good stuff in, so he did, and this is were the problem started, so not sure if it was do to stuff in the tank or water in the fuel.

So now that I have an idea, I will get on it, and check it out and see if I can find some thing in the tank and clean it. And look at the manual before I take it back to the shop.

Thanks again,
Sharon

Click to expand...

2 cycle outboards are 1/2 as complicated as an automotive engine. Don't be afraid.

I got a big discount on my boat because it had a fuel issue. After cleaning everything up, including the tank, and installing a Racor filter/separator, I have had no issues. I took the cheap factory filter off the engine and discarded it. To be fair, I also eliminated the fuel disconnect to eliminate a source of contamination.

good luck
John

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

We spent several hours taking the gas tank out of the boat, that was a chore, we had to take out both batteries and both battery trays.

First we pumped about a gallon of gas in a 1 gallon glass jar to see if any water would settle, Nope, no water or any thing else.

We continued to pump the gas into several 5 gallon containers. We looked inside the tank (off white plastic tank, you can see how much gas is inside) And we could see a dark orange ring around the top. So we put the rest of the gas in a different tank. We then could see in the bottom was some dirt, a black spider and a big black bee. Hmm!, how did those get in there.

So we took fresh gas, put in swirled around, dumped out, did a few times, till every thing was out. Then we used a strainer with cheese cloth and funnel and strained the gas as we put it back in, not much, just a little dirt was there.

We added 2 ounces of star tron to about 13 gallons of gas, It said initial dose is 1 oz per 8 gallons, that would be 16, it also says over does wont hurt. So we went with it.

We took the cover to the carbs off, and sprayed some carb cleaner in there, cranked it up. It smoked like a chimney at first, but then cleared up, and it ran pretty good, no stalling, or stalling when we gave it gas. We let it run for 15 minutes, let it rest till cool and it cranked back up.

Im not sure if we need to do any thing else or not, But going to take it out this weekend for a spin and see how it does.

Any think else we should check, Will report back after we take it out.

Thanks,
Sharon

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

rsmobley85 said:

We spent several hours taking the gas tank out of the boat, that was a chore, we had to take out both batteries and both battery trays.

First we pumped about a gallon of gas in a 1 gallon glass jar to see if any water would settle, Nope, no water or any thing else.

We continued to pump the gas into several 5 gallon containers. We looked inside the tank (off white plastic tank, you can see how much gas is inside) And we could see a dark orange ring around the top. So we put the rest of the gas in a different tank. We then could see in the bottom was some dirt, a black spider and a big black bee. Hmm!, how did those get in there.

So we took fresh gas, put in swirled around, dumped out, did a few times, till every thing was out. Then we used a strainer with cheese cloth and funnel and strained the gas as we put it back in, not much, just a little dirt was there.

We added 2 ounces of star tron to about 13 gallons of gas, It said initial dose is 1 oz per 8 gallons, that would be 16, it also says over does wont hurt. So we went with it.

We took the cover to the carbs off, and sprayed some carb cleaner in there, cranked it up. It smoked like a chimney at first, but then cleared up, and it ran pretty good, no stalling, or stalling when we gave it gas. We let it run for 15 minutes, let it rest till cool and it cranked back up.

Im not sure if we need to do any thing else or not, But going to take it out this weekend for a spin and see how it does.

Any think else we should check, Will report back after we take it out.

Thanks,
Sharon

Click to expand...

A coupla spiders or bees wouldn't bother a 60 GPH Racor filter much, but they would completely plug up that cheap plastic thumb sized "filter" murkery puts on their engines.

Just a thought.
John

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

Yep, we have replaced that not so cheap filter a couple times now.

I showed that Racore filter to my DH, and he thinks its a good Idea, So I guess I will read some post about how to install one. I take it we do away with the plastic filter right.

I wonder if there is a pic of one installed on a outboard motor.

I tell you between this boat and working on our pop up camper, its a full time job, lol. Flipping the axle to get 4 inches of clearance tomorrow. Off to go look for info on that filter..

Sharon

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

For your motor, and with a good bit of headroom for filter plugging, I'd recommend a Racor 120R-RAC-01 fuel filter/water separator.

The filter mounts anywhere convenient, and the fuel line from the tank is routed through it.

Their catalog page:
http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.734d2913eb3c11da13576f849420d1ca/?vgnextoid=d195f87357e28110VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default&division=5a13d1bea018f010VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&literaturetype=Catalogs&searchAttr=searchResult&languages=EN&parentCh=Division#results

Download and unzip marine filters catalog. Go to the marine spin-on series.

BTW, if you have any problem with gasoline spilling out of the tank vent (a common problem on bass boats) their fuel/air separator is a killer product.

hope it helps
John

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

When I cleaned out my tank, I filtered the fuel through a 10 micron scientific filter paper and recovered a few grams of a white geletanaceous substance that was my problem all along.

hope it helps
John

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

Sharon,
What was the outcome here?

Re: Carb Issues Again!!!!!!!!!

Sorry I havent got back to yall on this, its been a rough few weeks.


We took all the gas out and cleaned the tank, removed all the bugs and stuff. Put in one 5 gallon can of gas with 2 oz of the star tron stuff. It cranked up and ran, smoked at first, but then ran faster and smoother, no smoke, So then we started working on the axle flip for the popup. And, then 2 cars got broke in to for the 2nd time in 2 months, and we also noticed, that the other 4 5 gallon cans of gas from the boat were missing, along with some other stuff off the porch. So haven't had time to get more gas in the boat. As I went in the hospital with some heart issues and found out I have bad asthma, so im 2 weeks out. And we just finished the axle filp yesterday, So boat is next.

Will try and take it and get some gas and add more star tron stuff to it, and see how it runs in the lake. Im hoping this is what the problem is.

I will report back when we test it out. DH refuses to put a fuel seperator on the boat, I bet if it starts acting up he will change his mind, LOL!

Sharon