There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) * PICS ADDED *

jtexas · Jul 8, 2009

1979 rude 70, 20" shaft, model no. 70973R

2 parts, I can't find 'em on any of the charts, not mentioned in the OEM manual or seloc either:
*A water tube guide extension sort of thing -- plastic tube about 5" long, just a hair smaller diameter than the water tube guide (attached to pump housing), and
*A plastic adapter sort of thing about an inch long, slides over the water tube guide and the extension slides down into it.

It was on there when I got the motor, and been in every OEM pump kit I've installed.

I lost the adapter last time and self-engineered a solution involving a piece of pvc pipe bored out on one end to fit the housing, and teflon tape on the extension tube to make it fit (necessity being the mother of invention).

The new guy at the local "authorized" BRP parts house (none of the oldtimers were there that day) told me they don't sell the full pump kit anymore (what the???) and was clueless when I tried to explain what I needed.

Tried to sell me the individual parts for $90 not including the housing - right - so I ordered the sierra kit from iboats for $45 with shipping.

anyways, what's the deal? I can always just keep doing what I'm doing, but can anybody clear up this mystery for me?

rockyrude · Jul 8, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

BRP # 0319276 guide,water tube it's on the diagram of the gearcase

jtexas · Jul 8, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

rockyrude said:
BRP # 0319276 guide,water tube it's on the diagram of the gearcase

or so it would seem, but, that part is fastened to the housing with a screw (#0319292), enlarge the picture enough, you can see how it has a molded-in flange at the botom with the screw hole. the grommet there (#314008) is rubber and fits inside there where that guide meets the housing --

The part I'm talking about sits on top a that, just a plain straight tube, approx. the same inside diameter with a smaller outside diameter, but not small enough to fit down into it.

The adapter for it is hard plastic, half of it has an inside diameter that slides easily down over the top of that tube guide you identified, the other half has a slightly smaller I.D., so my mystery extension tube is a perfect fit down into it. There's no gasket or o-ring or seal of any kind there -- it's not a watertight connection, just a real close fit.

I really appreciate you went to the trouble of looking it up, I know it can be a bit of a hassle.

jtexas · Jul 9, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

^^^

jtexas · Jul 10, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

^^ bump ^^

jay_merrill · Jul 10, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Take pics and post them - its kind of hard to respond with out having a visal of what you are describing.

jtexas · Jul 11, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple)

Excellent suggestion!

The water tube guide reference above by rocky is *not* what I'm talkin bout:

This is the "water tube guide extension" (my own nomenclature), which came in the last OEM full pump kit I installed maybe 3 years ago. The one it replaced was black as I recall:

Note the teflon tape I added, to customize the fit into my homemade adapter, when I lost the other one.

This piece of pvc replaced the OEM adapter, but had to be bored out just a bit to fit over the water tube guide -- piece of cake with a dremel & sanding wheel:

The oem adapter was brown, hard plastic, a little smaller O.D. than my PVC, and a different inside diameter on one end than on the other, for a perfect fit (although not water-tight).

Installed:

Reason for disassembly: water pump impeller change due.

I was looking forward to replacing the adapter, just on the general principle of not putting teflon tape inside the water passage. Never caused a problem, though.

I thought for sure somebody would know what I was talkin bout.............

thanks!

jay_merrill · Jul 11, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

The white piece is no where that I can find in the parts listings. That leads me to believe that it is a home made piece that someone put in the motor. The only reason that I can think of this being needed, is because the copper water tube in your motor is either out of a midsection for a 15" motor, or someone cut it for some reason.

The first thing that I would do, is to call a BRP/OMC dealer and ask them what they think. My guess is that they are going to tell you that you need a new water tube. The easiest thing to do would be to buy one, but I have made them before.

Whatever the case, I would lose the piece in your motor now. If you have to fool around with tape, etc., its not right. Fix it right!

jtexas · Jul 11, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

exactly! it's not documented anywhere!

Yet that white tube you see in my hand there, that came in a BRP box labelled "water pump kit" which was handed to me over the counter at my local authorized BRP parts dealer.

I would call the dealer, but I was standing there in person a couple weeks ago trying, unsuccessfully, to explain what I needed.

I swear I am not making this up.

I'm not a professional mechanic or anything, but this is not my first rodeo.

jay_merrill · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

What does the dealer have to say about the part number for the tube and the adapter that you had to manufacture? If the white tube is stock, there has to be a part number for it and the same is true of the adapter.

jtexas · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

I didn't manufacture the tube, just the adapter. That particular tube was in the box with the rest of the kit, about 3 years ago. Just like the one in the kit before that, maybe 5 years ago, except a different color.

The dealer pulls up the gearcase diagram on his screen (looks exactly the same as the one at evinrude.com), and says, "which part you talkin about?"

This shop has been in the same location in Fort Worth for at least 40 years, but of course I was there on a Saturday, and the old timers must have been at lunch or something, and the kid working the counter might've been 20 years old.

This the kid told me they don't sell the pump kits anymore.

Anyways, if you have a motor like mine and it doesn't have anything like that in it, then maybe I've finally totally lost it......must've been that stuff we were smoking back in college.

R.Johnson · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

I believe the part you are referring to here is simply called a space. The correct one should have a o-ring on each end. It slip's into the recess at the top of the water pump, and around the drive shaft. You will find a matching recess up in the exhaust housing. It has to be in place. The last part number I have for the spacer is 324453, 2 0-ring's 301967. These part's are located in the exaust housing group, not the gearcase. That's why they cound'nt find them. That nylon spacer you found in the box look's like a water tube locator as used in the v-4'. You don't need that part you made. Just a rubber grommet goes there for the copper water tube.

jay_merrill · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

You have me curious now - time to tap some of my local "gurus." I'll let you know what I find out in a few days.

jtexas · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

RJ, thanks for following up -- a search for part# 0324453 turns up the spacer you described, and the engine model numbers that it fits -- all 1979 to 1997 25-35 hp. see http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/brp/B-0324453.html I do have a grommet & o-ring for the driveshaft.

The 1979 115hp exhaust housing chart shows a grommet at the end of the water tube that isn't shown on the 70hp chart...

I looked at other years and models that might have parts I don't need in the same kit. While I didn't find a tube like mine on a V4 chart, I did see these on a 1970 3-cylinder:

Although, none of these parts (79, 80, 81, 93) should be in the same kit with my housing -- just doesn't make sense (that older one has two water tubes, incoming and outgoing).

Besides which, I took one of those off when I put that white one on last time -- and the time before that too.

I have the L/U at home & the boat's at the storage yard so I can't look up in there to see how it fits together right now. Remember I've never had any performance issues.

I really do appreciate the comments/ideas/advice/opinions/theories ......... keep 'em coming.

R.Johnson · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

jtexas: I somehow got mixed up with the first post, and then the photo's. I'll go back to the manual, and try to straighten it out. No wonder I had people confused.

R.Johnson · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

1979, 70HP, 20" shaft. My part's manual show's a grommett 314008 That goes into the pump housing first. Then goes the water guide tube 319276, on top of the grommett, and pump housing. This guide tube is held with a single screw. That white tube in the photo is a water tube guide, such as used in other large engin's "V-4"s". It is not needed in this engine, as the long guide tube is already on the pump. Does any of this make sense.

jtexas · Jul 12, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

it does make sense...especially if the *water tube* fits down into the *water tube guide* on the housing (which would explain the need for a rubber grommet down in there).

That being the case, these extra parts are just along for the ride, not causing a problem but not doing anything useful, either.

I just never even wondered about it before.

I'll verify that's the case when I button it back up, but unless somebody else chimes in, I don't see else what it could be.

Thanks for your help, I know it's a bit of a bother looking through the charts.....

tugsarecool · Jul 13, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

I've been following this thread with great interest since I have the same dilema in my '71 125 V4. I've been a mechanic by trade for 32 years and when I took the lower unit off to replace the impeller I was very surprised to see the missing seal on the top of the plastic connector tube. When I went to replace all the parts I assumed would be able to get a seal for the top. The parts guy at our local OMC dealer said I didn't need it, and he couldn't find it listed either. I put it together anyway, and it's never overheated, but I still feel uneasy about that missing seal. Everything I learned about cooling systems as a mechanic tells me there shouldn't be any leaks in any engine cooling system, marine or otherwise. You guys answered a question I've been having for a long time....thanks.

jay_merrill · Jul 16, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

I just paid a visit to the owner of the BRP/OMC dealership that I have been doing business with for about 10 years. He has been in business for over 30 years and has been an authorized repair facility all during that time.

The problem is that neither one of those parts is an extension. They are both guides and they are not intended to be installed together. The black pump that you posted a photo of, is the correct one for a 1979 70hp OMC motor. There should be a grommet underneath it and the water tube should fit directly into the guide.

The white piece is a guide that goes with the water pump for a 1973 65hp OMC and older "triple." The part number for this piece is 314765. The reason why no one, inlcuding the kid at the parts counter of your local dealership, can find the part number, is because they are looking at parts information for a 1979 motor and it doesn't go on that motor.

jtexas · Jul 16, 2009

Re: There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED

Thanks for the follow-up, Jay.

It fits together just like you described.

There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) *** PICS ADDED ***

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There's 2 undocumented parts in my lower unit? (1979 triple) * PICS ADDED *