1989 Evinrude 225 VRO Surges @ WOT / Won't go above 4500 RPM's

Toledo48 · #1 June 19th, 2009, 12:31 AM

I am in need of some good advice. I have a 1989 225 VRO, and it ran like a champ last season but was very hard starting. I would get WOT RPM's of about 5200 and a speed of about 45 mph according to GPS. Was not bad for a 22 ft Hydra-Sport Vector 2200 Walk Around. I sent it in for service this year and I have had nothing but problems since I got it back.

The service center found multiple problems with the motor when they opened her up. I was told that I had a bad reed box. One of the reeds was bent up, and the mechanic showed me the damaged reed plate. It was replaced with a factory OEM. Next he said all 6 carbs were in need of of rebuilding. 6 OEM carb kits were ordered, and carbs were rebuilt. He then found that I was leaking water a the base of the power head, and a new gasket was put in place. Engine was then reassembled, timed, synchronized, powertuned, and plugs were then replaced. I was then told all was well and given a bill for 1500 dollars.

I then took the boat out for it's first run of the season, and she ran great up until I hit WOT which now was only about 4500 RPM. The engine then began to surge and fall from 4500 to 4000 rpm, it would then pick back up. It continued to this. I then took it back to the shop. They tested it and stated my VRO pump was bad. I asked how they new, and they stated that the surge went away when they would pump the primer bulb. I said ok, and ordered a new one. The new pump was put on, and was converted to the 4 wire since I had the original 3 wire on it. I was then given the boat back stating it was now fixed, and was also given another bill for 500 dollars this time.

I then took the boat for another boating trip. I then tried to run it @ WOT. The same problem was still there, and this time it was using 3 times the required amount of oil. Back to the shop it went. I was then told it was the VRO pump again. A new was ordered, and it was replaced. This time the mech tested the oil side of the pump and stated all was working correctly. He also stated the fuel pressure was so good he had to back the idle down this time. He then stated that he took it for a test run and was able to get 4900 rpm @ WOT and it ran fine. I was given then boat back, and no bill this time.

I then took out again. The problem was still there. Engine was surging, and WOT only reached 4500 rpm and dropped to 4000. I then went back to the shop today. The mech then pulled my pickup from the gas tank. He removed the screen, and the antisiphon ball. He hooked the tank back up, and we ran it. Problem was still there. He then disconnected my tank and connected a six gallon directly to the back of the VRO pump. We ran it, and the problem was still there. The mech then began scratching his head. We then ran out of time since they closed at 4pm. I am going back in the morning, and he is going going to vacum test the fuel side of the pump. Not sure what this is going to do to help, but he is the trained professional. I don't know how much more of this I can take. Like I said it ran fine prior to taking it for service, just started hard. Any help you guys can give would be greatly appreciated.

ezeke · #2 June 19th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Surging is usually caused by air leaks in the fuel supply, but restriction on the gasoline side could have a similar result.

If you have two fuel filters on the system, you could get rid of the one at the engine.

fch2cxr · #3 June 19th, 2009, 04:08 AM

I had a bad experience with a in-line fuel filter which was the glass kind, ended up getting a plastic one, that was after ~$600 dollar in parts, give that a try keep only one filter and see what happens...

jonesg · #4 June 19th, 2009, 04:22 AM

The fact he ran it on a 6 gal auxillary tank bypasses all external filters,
theres a leak under the hood, fuel line fitting maybe.

anyway, that'll be $1100 please.

ezeke · #5 June 19th, 2009, 11:49 AM

There is not much point in using any kind of in-line filter with ethanol; get a full-sized water separating outboard filter mounted properly and be done with it.

Toledo48 · #6 June 19th, 2009, 05:53 PM

Thanks for the advice guys. I showed up at the service center early this morning and the Mechanic was already hard at work. After numerous tests he finally noticed fuel leaking from the VRO fuel side, it was then discovered to have a small crack. He replaced it and we took her for a run, she ran horrible (no power) but the surge was gone. Got her back to the dock and pulled the plugs. They were all severely fouled. Put fresh set of Champions in and took her back out. She ran like a beast. 3 guys on the boat and got about 4800 rpm's @ WOT. Mechanic said that was pretty good considering the age of the motor (20 plus years). He then told me to drop down from a 19 to 17 pitch prop and i'll get my 5200 rpm's.

Thanks for the input. And I am happy it did not cost anymore out my pocket. I would also like to add that I already have a Recor filter on the engine which was changed out as well. Thanks to all again.

ezeke · #7 June 19th, 2009, 06:35 PM

Your motor is lugging if propped at 5200. You should be working for 5800 to 6000 RPM with your normal load. Tell your wrench to look it up; the full throttle range is 5,000 to 6,000 and the rev limit is set at 6,700.

jonesg · #8 June 19th, 2009, 07:02 PM

3 VRO pumps to find a good one.!

tashasdaddy · #9 June 19th, 2009, 07:33 PM

agree with ezeke. sure sounds like you are over propped.

72SideWinderSS · #10 June 19th, 2009, 07:36 PM

I would be doing a serious decarb procedure. Like Twice, then check compression.

Toledo48 · #11 June 21st, 2009, 06:40 PM

I was wondering about the prop on the boat. When I first bought it. It had 20 pitch raker sst. I then dropped to a 19 pitch sst Ballistic and was getting around 5000 rpms. I know have a HUB style Michigan Raptor 14.25 x 19, and still get only about 4800-5000 rpms. It sounds like I should maybe drop down to a 15 pitch. The Apollo series look nice, and I have read good things about them. Any input on prop size would help. I also powertuned it once already. I let it set for 3 hours before blowing it out. I am guessing by what I have read I should do it again. How long should I let it set for? Should I keep doing until I dont get any jet black plugs? Thx

72SideWinderSS · #12 June 21st, 2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo48

I was wondering about the prop on the boat. When I first bought it. It had 20 pitch raker sst. I then dropped to a 19 pitch sst Ballistic and was getting around 5000 rpms. I know have a HUB style Michigan Raptor 14.25 x 19, and still get only about 4800-5000 rpms. It sounds like I should maybe drop down to a 15 pitch. The Apollo series look nice, and I have read good things about them. Any input on prop size would help. I also powertuned it once already. I let it set for 3 hours before blowing it out. I am guessing by what I have read I should do it again. How long should I let it set for? Should I keep doing until I dont get any jet black plugs? Thx

Is this the best RPMs it has ever had 5000 ?

If so, I would be making sure my motor was running top notch and then be working the setup before buying more props. You have went from a 20" to a 19". The boat may have never been setup right from the beginning.

The de-carb method I prefer is :

Since this pops up every other day on some board, try this method, I picked it up on another board and have been using it for awhile now,works great.
Tip for the Week
Do-It-Yourself Engine Tip; A Simple and Cost Effective Way to De-Carbon an Outboard
By Capt. Bob Dunkelberger dunk75@comcast.net
This works for Carbed, EFI, Ficht, HPDI, Opti-max and even 4-strokes... and should be administered after every 50-60 hours of use.
First you need a separate small fuel tank. One of those 3-gallon red Tempos works well or an empty gallon milk jug in a pinch, but it might be a bit messier.
I use Seafoam over the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) stuff like OMC Engine Tuner or Mercury Power Tune. Note: in the last few years they changed the formula and you have to let them sit up 12 hours. Who's got time for that? Seafoam does the job in 15 minutes and can be purchased from NAPA, Car Quest or other auto stores.
You'll need 3/4 gallon of gasoline and one 16oz can of Seafoam for each engine. Don't forget to add 3oz of oil if you are pre-mixing in a carbed engine. Use a 3 ft piece of fuel hose off the small tank. Connect this tank to your engine by pulling off the main tank fuel hose from the intake side of your water separating fuel filter and plug the hose off the small tank onto that fitting. Or you can separate the fuel line on the tank side primer ball, so you can still use your primer. If your engine has a fuel plug then you will also need a fuel plug on the smaller tank's hose.
Start the engine, let it warm up and start pulling the mix into the engine. You may have to increase the idle to keep it running once she gets loaded with the Seafoam. Run the engine 15 minutes at the dock or just cruising around under 2500 rpm's. Then shut it down and let it sit for another 15 minutes.
Restart the engine; the smoke you see is the carbon burning off. Do the whole thing again and let her sit again for 15 more minutes. If she smokes after the second time do it again.
I've never seen one still smoke after three doses. (I bought a Bronco two years ago that had 95,000 miles on it. When I used Seafoam on it I had the neighbors hanging out of their front doors looking for where the fire was after I started it the first time there so much smoke)
The gallon mix should be just enough to do this 3 times. You don't need a wide-open throttle and you don't need to change the plugs. The plugs are cleaned at the same time as the combustion chambers. My suggestion is that every 50-60hrs is the optimal time to change plugs in most engines.
I cleaned an antique Evinrude once that had a 1/4" of solid carbon on the exhaust chamber walls by running a 1/2 gal of the aforementioned mix through it. Seafoam, a great product, has been around since the 1930's and it's what they used when they were burning straight 4 stroke 40SAE oils in outboards.
For you guys with the 4 stroke outboards? Those engines work 10 times as hard as any auto engine ever will and they too will carbon up. Too many are under the assumption that it's totally the 2 stroke oil that causes the carbon, Wrong... it's also the additives they put in the fuels today. The carbon inhibitors in 2-stroke oil are there for this reason also. Remember when gasoline used to smell like gasoline, today it smells more like bad cologne.
For those guys that like to work the carbon treatment by spraying it down the carbs, Seafoam also comes in spray can called Deep Creep. It's the same stuff under pressure and notes on the can, "Oxygen Sensor Safe". After that, if your engine manufacturer recommends a daily additive treatment then do so. The tank and hose are a one-time purchase and the Seafoam is only costs $5-6.00 per can.

--------------------
Gary

Toledo48 · #13 June 21st, 2009, 08:04 PM

I will give the Sea Foam a Try. Sounds like it could be a great fix for my outboard. I will post the out come.

Toledo48 · #14 June 22nd, 2009, 05:22 PM

Ok I did the Sea Foam treatment. I actually ran 2 complete cans through the system with 1.5 gallons of gas. Spent 3 hours doing it. I then took it out for a test run and she ran good, but I still only got roughly 4800 rpm's @ WOT. There was a slight chop but not bad. When I got back to the dock I pulled the plugs and they all looked great. So I guess now I need to find the proper pitch prop. The 19 pitch Rapture I have on it now I believe is double cupped, and it is also a counter roatation. Not sure what direction to go. Any advice would be helpful. Thx for all the help so far.

72SideWinderSS · #15 June 22nd, 2009, 05:39 PM

Things I would check/confirm:
WOT Timing.
Confirm Butterflies are opening to horizontal, when the throttle lever is at max.
Verify the tach.

Where is your Anti ventilation Plate in relation to the bottom of your hull ?
Where are you located at ?

We might be able to get your RPMs up by raising your motor up a few holes.
A 19" pitch doesn't sound that far off to me.

ezeke · #16 June 22nd, 2009, 06:41 PM

Assuming that the A/V plate is now level with the bottom of the boat,
raise the motor one hole (you only have three and you are using one of those) and try it; but first mesure from the bottom of the boat to where the A/V plate is now.

Then run the boat at WOT to see if the RPM changes; the A/V plate should be parallel to the water.

Toledo48 · #17 June 22nd, 2009, 07:09 PM

Ok

WOT was set by mechanic, and told me it could not go any farther.

Tach was also checked, and Mechanic stated it was right on the money with his.

As far as the anitventalation plate I believe it is in the top set of holes. I should probley mention to that my motor sets on a platform and that platform is attached to the transom of the boat. I believe they call it a Sea Drive.

I am located in Toledo. Western Lake Erie Basin.

If one were to move the motor up. What equipment is required, and does the trim move along with it. I am guessing the engine ways about 800 pounds or more. Also I always was curious as to why when I lift the motor completely up (Tilted) that part of it still sticks in the water at the dock. It is about roughly 2in or so of the lower end cone portion.

ezeke · #18 June 22nd, 2009, 08:30 PM

WOT means wide open throttle. When the throttle plates are horizontal, the carburetors are "wide open". At that point the setup and propeller determine how high the RPM can go, subject to the rev limit of the particular powerpack.

The A/V plate should be no lower than the bottom of the boat when the A/V plate is parallel to the bottom of the boat and in the running position.

The A/V plate is the larger horizontal plate just abve the propeller.