1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

domwebhost

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Hi,

I have posted on this forum before, but I thought I would start a new thread because I think my post is getting passed over because of the date stamp. If you go to http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=263192 you will see that I have a 1970 Evinrude 60HP ( the one with the wire strip terminal and "monkey nuts"). I noticed that I was NOT getting any spark. Thinking it was the coil i got a new coil and put it in..still no spark... Then i used my handy-dandy voltmeter to check the voltage going into the Motorola #6CB2001. There was voltage going into it, then I checked the connector that comes out of the amplifier and into the wire strip terminal (that goes to the coil) and I am getting NO voltage. Is it a safe assumption that this amplifier is bad. I would really like some input because these things are like $250+. It;s one thing to blow $30 on a coil, it's another thing to blow $300 on an amp if it isn't needed. Are there any other tests? Is it possible to rebuild the amp ( or send it away to be rebuilt..etc) Any thoughts? comments?...could it be the rectifier and not the amp? I am guessing NO since I am checking the wire that is coming off of the amp and going to the wire terminal/coil

Thanks in Advance,
Dominic
 

lyncraft_mechanic

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

try unplugging the main wire harness, it should be a big red plug, and jump the starter selonoid if you have spark replace your ignition switch.
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

By "main wire harness" are u talking about the one that comes in from the Hydrodrive unit on the boat ( it has the little wire hangers clamping it together?) or is there another one somewhere I should know about. I don;t really see a harness other than that one that comes in from the boat and the wire terminal itself.
 

R.Johnson

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

That is a battery, capacitor-discharge ignition. You are going to need a OEM service manual, and at least some basic test eguipment. Things are going to get very frustrating, and exspensive without it. That system is to complex to try to explain it step, by step here.
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

I have a high end voltmeter and have experience in mechanics and electrics. I don;t have a problem grasping what the other member told me to do, I was just a little confused. I have rebuilt automotive engines/motorcycles so I can;t see the "step by step" being too complex... maybe too tedious to type ..:D My "big red harness" is a "big black harness" that comes from my hydrodrive. I can easily unplug the harness and pump 12v at the solenoid if that will show me if I have spark or if the amp is bad when the starter is cranking the engine over.. thoughts? need pics? When i tested the 12v while cranking it over I get 12v in the input of the amp, but NOT 12v out into the coil from the amp via the wire terminal.
thought??? pics???
 

lyncraft_mechanic

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

it is the main harness coming from your ignition switch
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

Ok Lyncraft, I will try that today and post my findings tonight :)
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

I seperated the ignition harness and jumped the start solenoid and checked for spark at the coil and didn't get anything. The way that I jumped it was basically to hook up a a jumper to the HOT coming from the battery (to the solenoid) and just tapping the lead on the starter with it. I didn't
get even the slightest of voltage. I then replugged the ignition harness in and looked forspark and didn't get anything off of that, either. I found another thread posted at
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=289059 and this member sounds like he has a similiar problem and engine. I do not know if the points being out of whack would cause it to NOT have spark even though we bypassed the ignition. Maybe that is a question for the forum?? :) Any other troubleshooting tips would be greatly appreciated. I noticed that a couple of wires were not on the terminal correctly and quickly moved them to a stock setup. Then I tried to look for spark again and nothing. So what do you guys think? Would points stop me from getting spark even when I bypass the ignition system ( I am testing for spark AT the coil ( Not at a spark plug--although i have tested AT the park plug, too using both the exclusionary ignition system test, and standard)? Thoughts?

Enclosed is a quick picture that I snapped of the port side of the engine so that you can see where the coil is , the "monkey nuts" the amp, and the ignition harness.

3555524930_7e76715cbb.jpg


I have all weekend to work on this motor ( since i won't be out on the lake), so I can try anything/everything you guys want me to :)
 

R.Johnson

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

What is that orange coil wire hooked to? You can't check the pak output with a standard volt meter. How is that OEM manual starting to look?
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

I didn't say it was a standard Voltmeter ( it is a high end voltmeter used in the HVAC business that counts voltage to ten thousanths of a volt up to thousands of volts and checks for Amperes, Watts, Ohms, DC, AC, continuity and even temperature if I plug in a certain probe...... surely enough to do this job if it can do troubleshoot 1200+ ton Centri-Vac machines) I fellow member has PM'ed me and let me know that anything from the OEM book that I need he can hook me up with. The orange wire in the photo is the same as the "blue" wire on the wiring diagram which goes to the coil on one end, the wire terminal on the other end ( lower junction). It is paired with the AMPLIFIER blue wire as well. On the top of the wire terminal ( that is missing the screw there is supposed to be a jumped ground wire from the end terminal to the one next to it ( in question) it is for the "remote start". Should I make a quick little jumper for it? It is a CDI coil ( aftermarket) so the wire isn't blue. Yes, I understand that the amp steps the voltage up from 12v to ~300v but I would assume I would get some kind of reading ( even if it was a MAX reading of 0L ). I would rather get human input rather than an OEM flowchart and throwing hundreds of dollars in the toilet. That is why I ask on the forum and am hoping someone has had a like problem, or enough experience in the engine to point me to the next troubleshooting tip. Funny that the thread I referred to the guy got excellent and thorough help and not once was it a one-liner about getting an OEM book. I understand the need for one and appreciate you pointing it out to me. I am now looking for some members that might have some more troubleshooting tips for me to do UNTIL the OEM book gets here ( or I ask the PM'ed member for a couple scanned pages) :D

Thanks

Here is a picture of that wiring diagram in case you need to look at it to see what I mean:

3555601128_2e71e473b7.jpg
 

R.Johnson

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

With the key on, check for battery voltage at the purple wire going into the pak. If there is, disconnect the breaker point lead coming down from the stator plate to the pak. Touch the end of this lead from the pak to engine block, or ground. You should get a strong blue spark from the coil each time you make, and break this contact. That clipper assembly will shut down the systen if it's faulty. Should you need a pak, the directions will tell you to take the clipper out of the system. The test as I discribed will eliminate the points, anti-reverse spring, rotor, and distributor cap as a possible problem at this point. Take that clipper out of the system for now.
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

Sounds great!!!! I will do that tomorrow in the A.M. and post my results.. I have checked the purple wire going into the pak as you described a few days ago ( I thought i posted that) and I am gettting 12v going into the pack from the purple wire going into it. I just get no power coming out of it. I will, however, do exactly as you say in the way(s) that you have described and I will post my results ASAP.


Thanks in advance
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

Ok, I am headed out to the boat, if anyone else has any tips feel free to post, I will have my laptop by me as I try the one(s) already posted.
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

R. Johnson,

I just got done doing what you had explained. I do get voltage at the purple wire and I do, indeed get a bright blue spark (so hot, in fact that it burnt the end of my alligator connector when I was tapping it against a ground).. So, I take it that takes the top end of the electrical system out of the equation, and since the coil I bought is brand new I don't think that they gave me a faulty one. So, what's the next step, and / or what does that test prove? Does it prove that the top end of the electrical system is ok? Any more input would be GREATLY appreciated. I have all weekend to conduct any battery of tests that you throw at me :p
Thanks so far, you guys are rocking!!!!
 

R.Johnson

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

What it proves is that exspensive power pak is not the problem, nor the coil, or ignition switch. Now it's time to get under the flywheel, and check the point's, anti reverse spring, rotor, and dist. cap.
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

ok, pulling the flywheel off now... Anything specific that I should look for?
 

R.Johnson

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

Continuity across the points, and down the wire you disconnected for the pak, coil output test. Those points also will give you sticker shock, but they are easily cleaned. Set them at .010 when you put them back. Looking down on the stator you will see a insulated plastic block with a black ground wire going to it. Just ahead of it will be that anti-reverse spring. See that it is not broke in two. Check the rotor, and dist. cap for any cracks, or carbon trails. With these parts cleaned up, and you have continuity, when back together, you should have spark at the plugs. Torgue the flywheel down to 105 Ft/Lbs.
 

domwebhost

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

I took off the flywheel ( and looking on the underside ( where the stator contacts the flywheel ) and noticed that it was rusty and that the Stator contacts were rusty as well. I took the stator off to get to the points. I checked the gaps on the points and one was .02 too high and the other was .01 too low. I didn;t know if such a small discrepancy would make a differece, but just to be sure I set them both to .010. I checked for continuity across the points and got it! I cleaned off the stator contacts with a scotch Brite pad and some elbow grease. After the contacts were left nice and shiny I focused my attention to the inside of the flywheel. The "rust ring" that was left on the flywheel, assumbaly from the stator contact path, was taken off by using a piece of extremely fine emory cloth. I checked for cracks in the distributor for cracks in the copper wire that runs between each stator contact to verify that there were no mechanical breaks. Then I reassembled the stator/distributor/flywheel and pulled the center spark plug wire to check for spark. I cranked key over on the ignition to turn the engine over and there was a bright blue spark arching. O Glorious site! I have never seen this motor running so I am not sure what condition the fuel system is in. I am sure I will be post a thread when I become, once again, stumped. My hat goes off to the members that, through their knowledge and patience, made short work of a problem that could have, in the end, cost me hundreds of dollars to diagnose. All of that and I didn't use an OEM manual ( but I have one ordered ;) ).

here are a couple of pictures.




The points/anti-reverse spring.


3556764447_2a87e97fd6.jpg




The rust on the stator contacts (and some wierd blue paint stuff)

3556764535_caab05f439.jpg


Thanks guys, you R O C K ! ! ,
Dom
 

tx1961whaler

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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

Wow! Good job. That's one of the best "Remote Troubleshooting" threads I've seen in a long time....
 

swmarsh

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May 5, 2009
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Re: 1970 Evinrude 60HP Ignition troubles.. help please!

I am keeping an eye out here also. Today I was starting up my 1970 85 Hp Evinrude and it fired off then when I gave it some power it shut off and now no spark. So I might have to do the same as described in this thread.
Thanks for the great info so far.
Steve
 
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