King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

I have a 1994 21' Four Winns Horizon. I have had it about 3 years and it is in great condition overall. Lately I have been having some issues. After de-winterizing it and fluid changes for the summer (all done at the boat shop) I have only been able to use the boat a couple of times. I just had the starter rebuilt last week and installed it this morning. The boat cranked and ran beautifully on the water hose and I even got about 20 laps around the lake with the kids on the knee board before troubles started again.

I believe that I burned the starter up a couple of weeks ago trying to get the boat to crank so these problems are probably related.

While my daughter was learning to get up on the wakeboard we would be idling nicely no problems, when I would give the gas the engine would die. I would hit the key and it would start right back up give the gas and it would go fine, she would fall and we would circle around at high speed, slow down let her get ready and the give it the gas again and it would die.... crank right back up... rinse and repeat 5 times then it just stopped cranking. I thought maybe the fuel guage was wrong and that during all the time I had been working on the starter etc. I had just burned up all the gas. I got a tow back to the dock went and got 2 gal of gas and put it in but still no crank. I even shot some starter fluid in the carb. still no start. I pulled the fuel filter/ water separator but before I could see if it had water in it I dropped it in that #$@## bilge.

I am not really familiar with this boat and the problems since this is really my first go at issues with it.

Any suggestions on how to diagnose the problem / issue would be greatly appreciated.

It has holley carb and it turns over fine.


Thanks

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,....

Sounds like a Full Tune-up,+ possibly a carb rebuild might be in order...

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Thanks Bond-O

I would reallly like to learn about doing this type of thing myself. Any suggestions on where to start.

Carb rebuild might be out of my league right now but I certainly wouldn't rule it out if I had some good examples.

If I were to take this back to my local boat repair shop what do you think I should expect to pay.

for example I pay about $150 to winterize and that includes all fluid changes, I don't think they replace the water pump impeller on this OMC each winter. I pay about $100 or so when I get it out for the spring. This is only the 2nd year I have done this. so I am not an expert



Again THANKS

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

I have been reading and searching / searching and reading. Wow the OMC's seem to have quite a negative reputation for finding parts and such.

I really hope that there is nothing serious wrong with mine. It was running so wonderfully. I hope there was simply water in the gas or something of that nature.

Can some one tell me just how in the heck do I get the spark plugs out on this thing? they seem to be unreachable to me.

Also I have found that the model # / Serial # tags are hard to read The one on the top model # seems to be 584DPJUB but I cant seem to get that to pop up anywhere the other tag that is directly below that one says 987351. I am wanting to find a service manual.

I was also thinking of pulling the carburetor myself and taking it to be rebuilt or buying a carb kit and doing it myself. Any suggestions??

Sorry for being so unorganized with my thoughts and questions I am just really hoping to not have to pour much more money into this boat for now.

THANKS!!

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

With a 94, you may not have a full fledged OMC. It may be from the Volvo OMC joint venture.
What is the FULL Model number of your engine? Including all the letters after the numbers.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

On my engine I have one tag for Model # / Serial # on that tag there is two sections printed on the sticker for model # / Serial # one right above the other. the top one reads

Model#
5(possible S)84DPPJUB
Serial #
T01263792

Below that there is a sticker on top of the original engine tag and covering the second spot for model # / Serial #. this sticker reads

Model#
987351
Serial#
T00793450

I took a flash light to make sure that I was able to get as good a look as possible. The top model # is faded and difficult to read however I am 98% sure I have the # correct

I have checked the carburetor fuel filter screen and it was fine.

Can't quite figure out if it is a fuel problem or a firing problem. It cranks fine just won't start, doesn't even hit.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

What you need to know is what kind of carb you have if you plan to rebuild it. That's how you order the rebuild kit. Can you take the lid off the carburetor and post a picture of it?

To determine if you have spark and no fuel, spray a quick shot of starting fluid down the throat of the carburetor then try to start it. If it starts then dies, you have spark and you're probably not getting fuel. If it doesn't start, you probably don't have spark.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

its a holley 4 barrel carb. I will get some pics later today.


Sprayed a shot of starting fluid in the carb and still no fire. A little puff of backfire after I released the key.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

MODEL # DECIPHERED using the following site:

http://www.sterndrive.info/model_numbers.html

584BPRJVB

I found that I am going to have to use an end wrench to get the plugs out also.

Any ideas on the best way to find if I have water in gas?

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

An

y ideas on the best way to find if I have water in gas

Click to expand...

You should have a water seperating fuel filter looks just like an oil filter, if you have one change it every year, and always keep a a spare and the filter wrench onboard.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Just siphoned 1/2 gal of gas from the bottom of the tank, the very bottom. About 1 teaspoon of water in the bottom of the container. its a 59 gal tank about 3/4 full and I don't want to drain all the fuel.

Do you think a new fuel filter can tolerate that level? It doesn't seem like my problem is gas.

I am really not wanting to have to go drop another couple hundred at the boat shop.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Sprayed a shot of starting fluid in the carb and still no fire. A little puff of backfire after I released the key.

Click to expand...

Ayuh,... Check to see that you have 12v power at Both of the smaller lugs on the starter solenoid, When Cranking....

Do you think a new fuel filter can tolerate that level?

Click to expand...

Yes....

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

DC test on the starter solenoid. Sitting it read 13.8v, when I cranked the v dropped to 0.7

This test was done on the solenoid that is on top of the engine.

Same test done on the solenoid that sits on top of the starter with same results.

using heavy duty jumper cables, made by John Deere shop, Hooked battery up to Chevy Tahoe and repeated the process with same results.


Disconnected the marine battery and used jumper cables to connect to the boat cables and tried voltage only dropped to 3.1 on the top solenoid.

I disconnected one of the sparkplug wires and plugged in a spare plug. Got spark while cranking.


While cranking if I listened very very carefully i could hear a deep sounding
thathump..........thathump.........thathump

It was very rhythmic and it maybe completely normal its just I have never been over in the engine compartment while it was cranking before.

I also noticed that there was no real backfire puff coming through the carb.

I am really hoping that this is something I can resolve without dropping a bunch of money.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

you said it stops cranking and has spark and has water in fuel, make sure you have a new fuel filter in there, and a good battery.
since its cranking now you may not need this info about troublshooting the starting system but just in case you do...
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167035

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Wanted to add that the spark I could see on the plug was very tiny. I had expected see more.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Thanks Bubba.

I do have the manual. I got it a couple of days ago. I have been familiarizing myself with the different aspects.

I have gone through the ignition/electrical section for my motor.

I am still trying to get this all to make sense. The boat was seemingly running just fine. then started dying when giving the gas to pull a skier up, cranking just fine running around the circle to get the line to the skier only to die again when giving the gas, eventually after this happened about 4 times it just stopped starting all together.

It just doesn't seem like an ignition problem and I don't find a trouble shooting example to test to see if the ignition system is working unless I want to pull the distributor or break open the coil module and even then it is not real clear on what I would be looking for.

I thought that there might come a suggestion about how to practically test for proper fire ... etc.

I guess the "B reak O ut A nother T housand" is where I am headed.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Get one of these in the right size for the plug http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ca...oductDetails.jsp?displayName=Socket&itemId=pr and a plug wire boot puller. It takes me about 20 minutes an engine. You should be able to do it quicker as I have dual 351's that the manifolds are only about 3" apart.

Also, make sure you get some dielectric grease on end of plug so plug wire gets electrical contact.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Possibly bad news for me. I checked the oil today just out of habit, there apears to be some water in the freaking oil. This wasn't there when I put it in the water the other day and it never ran hot.

I have a bad feeling about this.

The oil is not totally grey but I can tell it has a bit of water.

I failed to mention from the begining when I pulled my boat out of storage something had blocked the plug hole and there was a significant amount of water in the bilge up to the about 1/4 way up the fly wheel. I drained it and everything seemed to be fine.

Maybe I just totally screwed up my boat doing that. If so I am so pissed at myself, I have tried so hard to take care of this boat.

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

Gdombroski.. the link you posted was cut off . Can you repost so I can find the part you are telling me about.
THANKS!!

Re: King Cobra 351 Starting Problem

ok then two new questions.

How do I start to determine where the water came from?

And

On the coil this one has the spitfire EEM with carb so would I take the black box off and then test the coil how?? I have the Seloc manual but it doesn't really tell me alot.




*******




OK I pulled the coil and tested it according to the manual I have the following readings

1.7 on the coil terminals

10.44 on 20K setting on my greenlee DM02 multimeter

the ranges in the manual are:

1.26 and 1.54 on the coil terminals

and

9400 - 11000 on the high tension tower


i expected my meeter to show 104.4 on the 2000 ohm and 1044 on the 200ohm settings respectively but it didn't read anything on those two.

Can someone that knows tell me if they think I need to replace my coil based on these findings? (it seems so to me as the readings are outside the suggested)