Old Rude won't pull?

Hello all.

Long story short, I picked up an old 15 horse Evinrude out board for my little boat. As I have stared working on the boat again I turned my attention to the motor for a few minutes. Much to my dismay I tried to pull the motor and got nothing. It feels as if the motor is seized. The pull rope mechanism appears to be working properly. I can shift the motor into neutral and the prop will turn but in reverse and forward the prop will not turn. The fly wheel on the top of the motor will not turn either.

The motor has resided in the basement for the past year and I don't know how long it sat before I purchased it. Needless to say it has sat for a while.

I have read a post about Marvel's mystery oil and how well it works. I was thinking about pouring some into the spark plugs and letting it sit for a few weeks and see what I can get. I was thinking about after it sat for a while removing the pull cord spring return an trying something a little heavier to get the motor to break loose.

Any Thoughts?

Can anyone recommend a GOOD shop manual for this motor. I would like a really detailed motor for this.

The serial number is : 15012 46076 X


Thanks in advance for all the help,
Lowell

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Not sure what year you have but from say about 74 and up the recoil has a lock to prevent starting in gear. Turn throttle all the way off switch to neutral , throttle as far up as it will go and then try to pull rope. Rick.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Yes, ensure that it is in neutral...otherwise you're on the right track with penetrating oil.

MAS

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

A 15102 is a 1953 or 1954 Evinrude 15hp.

Yes, I'd place it on end. Pull the plugs and put something in there. There are many ideas on what, so pick one. Marvel is up there although I have not tried it.

Then remove the pull starter and use a wrench on the flywheel nut to wiggle it back and forth until it (hopefully) loosens... could take days...

If it does you want to hope that the rust was on the rings and not the crank as you'll be in trouble if the crank was rusted...

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Thanks for the replies! This evening I pulled both plugs. The top cylinder looks fine to me. However, the bottom cylinder is very gross looking. I pulled the plug and there was some rust on the plug and the top of the piston.

I filled both cylinders with Marvel's mystery oil. The top cylinder is on the exhaust stoke and the oil ran out onto my basement floor. GRRRR.

I'm going to let it sit in there for a few days and give spinning the fly wheel a try. Are there any tricks to turning the flywheel? I put a 3/4" socket on the nut on top but that nut appears to hold the flywheel onto the motor.

After seeing the plug and piston top I find myself disheartened. If this thing turns out to be really nasty is it something that I can tear down and put back back together if need be, I'm pretty mechanically inclined and have any tools that I would need. I can rebuild just about anything if I have a good shop manual, but I would love to hear from you folks who have done this kind og thing before.

Thanks again,
Lowell

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

It is definitely a motor you can tear apart easy. It sounds like your motor had a blown head gasket that let water into the bottom cylinder. I would pull the head since it's likely blown anyway and see if the cylinders are pitted. If so, I'd say the power head is trash. I figure there's a good chance it is anyway. I would think those lower rings are rusted to the cylinder and rusted up the cylinders as well. Anyway, once the head is off you can make up your own mind. Getting a used powerhead is a lot cheaper than new oversized pistons, rings, overboring, wrist pins, rods, etc., even if the crank and bearings are good. Then again, you still have a possility of saving it. Take a peek under the head.
Good luck,
JBJ

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

JBJ,

Thanks for your reply. When you say pull the head apart are you speaking of removing the jug? I checked it out and the gasket appears to be in good shape, no blown areas pitting etc.

Thanks for the help,

Lowell

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Lowell,
I mean pulling the cylinder head. It's likely that you may break some head bolts off in the head, but that's part of the fun of fixing oldies..
The cylinder head is the part that the spark plugs fit into (I know you probably know that, but just to be sure..:redface.
Just because the gasket looks good on the outside, doesn't mean the previous owner didn't get it hot, warp the head, and ruin the gasket on the inside.
Later,
JBJ

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Without doubt need to whip the head off to evaluate a little further.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Thanks guys, so from here I suppose I need to pull the head then. Once I pull it what am I looking for? Second question (of many), what do I do then? lol

Thanks,
Lowell

ps.. I tried the fly wheel again tonight and got no where.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Lowell,
It's what you hope NOT to see......If the cylinder walls are fairly pitted from rust, it's a goner. If you don't see a lot of rust in the cylinders and you think it's cleanable, then you can get to the pistons better and see if you can get some oil to them to free up the rings. If you get the rings free fairly easily, then you can take off the carb and intake manifold and see what the internals look like.
I hate to say it, but it's a good chance the powerhead is worthless. You don't want to put good money into a powerhead that may have loose wrist pins and bad bushings from overheats or too little oil, or bad crank bearings, etc., because of the water intrusion.
You'll most likely know when you get the head off.
JBJ

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Thanks, Maybe I can get the head off this weekend some time and I'll post picks as soon as I can get to the high speed to up load the pics. You mentioned maybe buying another power head, any thoughts about where I might find one if need be and what kind of price I may be looking at.


Thanks again,
Lowell

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

before pulling the head pull the transfer port covers and see what you find. It will also give you access to the piston a bit to get oil in there. If it is stuck from just sitting then you may be able to unstick it with oil in there.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Unless powerhead surgery charges your batteries, its often easier to find another powerhead complete (used) than rebuild one on its last legs...of course many aren't quite toast yet and can be brought back to life.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Once the head is off and walls inspected, if it looks clean do this. Level the cylinder vertical. Get some PB Blast. The spray can will do. Soak the piston/ring area and let sit. Wipe clean and repeat every few hours. 3-4 times.

Marvel works great, but PB Blast works even better. It acts on heat catalyst and really breaks rust up.

After last soak, grasp the flywheel and turn by hand. You don't want to break the rings if they are still stuck. work back and forth to free things up.

If you get it turning rotate several times, wiping out any trash on each down stroke. Rust/carbon deposits, etc.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

OK all here's how this evening went. I still couldn't get the flywheel to break loose. So I removed the head and took a look. Scratched my head, scratched my butt, thought a bit, thought some more then I had an epithany. Now I will not admit to using a hammer and a 2X2 but you can draw your own conclusions. ;-) Anyway, long story short after a little persuasion the piston moved. Back and forth once or twice with the hammer and we were off to the races. Here is a pic of the interior of the cylinder.




There was some lite surface rust inside the cylinder, which a little oil and steel wool made quick work of. There is one or 2 small spots that you can just barely feel near the top of the stroke nothing that concerns me though. The head gasket is in good shape still, no cracks, chips, splits, etc. The brass rings that surround the actual cylinder are still in good shape too.

I checked the compression on the top cylinder and the gauge read 100#. The top cylinder takes a smaller diameter plug than the lower cylinder and I couldn't get my gauge into the plug hole. I do know that without the plugs in the motor pulls like my 5hp lawn mower and with the plugs in it's like pulling a lead sled.

I tried to see if I was getting spark but my spark plug tester has given up the ghost and I got nothing. I'll try this later this weekend some time.

I do have some more questions now though.

1. Can I reuse the head gasket with permatex?
2. What is the transfer plate? If I remove it will it allow me to see the crank etc?
3. What would you do next?
4. Am I on the right track now? (compression-spark-fuel-drive line)

Thanks again,
you all rock,
Lowell

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Do not re-use head gasket
Does the lower plug have helicoil on it that came out with the plug ?? that would explain the different thread sizes.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

on the side of motor on each side are plates. on the starboard side will be two plates with four screws each. Taking those plates off will let you see the sides of the pistons and some of the crank. On the port side is on large plate that is the exhaust side. Taking that off will allow you to see that side as well.

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

Thanks guys!

I looked at the lower spark plug again and it does appear to have a heli coil on it. My next question is how do I get a new one on a new plug in order to replace the old plug? Can I just buy a new heli coil and put it on a new plug and be back in business.

After I remove the side plates is there anything in particular that I'm looking for? I would assume rust and signs of excessive wear etc?

Thanks again!
Lowell

Re: Old Rude won't pull?

OhioLowell said:

Thanks guys!

I looked at the lower spark plug again and it does appear to have a heli coil on it. My next question is how do I get a new one on a new plug in order to replace the old plug? Can I just buy a new heli coil and put it on a new plug and be back in business.

After I remove the side plates is there anything in particular that I'm looking for? I would assume rust and signs of excessive wear etc?

Thanks again!
Lowell

Click to expand...

I have a helicoil in one of mine. If the plug that has the helicoil on it is good then keep it for a spare on the lake if anything happens and it comes out again.
Get a new helicoil insert from an auto store for your new plug.
Another thing to be careful of is that on some thread inserts you will find they ride down the plug hole as you are screwing the spark plug in. If it goes too far then the piston could hit it and cause damage.
Happened to someone I know. Expensive and time consuming repair.