Darn this TM cant fish !!

OK I will start from beginning, bought a 98 Sprint bass boat. The previous owner had a Minn Kota Egde 70lb thrust TM installed. I have had enough time on the water to know that the TM was not working correctly. So I begin my investigation. I am a novice so I went to the web for help -- my first guess is that the TM seems to be only drawing 12v ( it needs 24v of course)

OK So I open the battery compartment and sure enough 2 batterys, but they are NOT hooked up to run as 24v --( no connector going from + batt 1 to - batt 2 )

each battery has a black and red connector -- I start tinkering around, I found that 1 red and 1 blk connected to ONE battery = TM prop spins but not very well at all (12v) --- ok I disconnect those 2 and try the OTHER red and black and NOTHING at all happens ( scratches head)

So I go back to the first red and black connections and try a 24v setup with batteries linked red connected to batt1 , blk connected to batt 2 , and the battery is linked with a connector + to - , I was certain this was gonna fix my issue but NO DICE -- TM doesnt come on at all

So I am stuck -- any suggestions ? -- Why are there 2 red and 2 blck connectors for the 2 batterys? is that standard for 12 v TM? I am thinking maybe the original TM was 12 v --- and who ever installed the 24v didnt compensate correctly. I was really surprised that 1 batt seems to move the prop at half speed but making it into a 24v set up stops the spinning completely : (

please help

MD

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

The boat is wired for what was a common 12 AND 24 volt motor. Each battery has separate wires running to either a switch panel or to the four prong connector. A switch on the trolling motor can be set to 12 or 24 volts, or the switch on the boat panel does it. That was common wiring back then. You can't even buy a 12/24 volt motor any more so that feature has been discontinued -- thank goodness. So what you need to do is connect the batteries in conventional 24 volt fashion using only two of the four wires (one red and one black). At the connector, all you need to do is make sure the red wire from the troller plug matches the pin on the boat connector that the red wire is connected to. Same for the black. Go fishing.

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

OK , no switch up front that i can switch to 24v --not on panel and no switch on new TM. ( from what I gather perhaps the original TM had a 12/24 switch )

So currently I can take 1 red and 1 black battery connector and make the prop spin albeit very slowly , ok fine but what I do not understand is I take that same red and black and set up a 24v system with the 2 batterys but nothing happens : (

Is there an issue where the wires get to the front panel ? That is where the TM big plug inserts at.

And what about the other set of red and black battery connections --I guess they are no longer used for anything??---no matter how I try and incorporate their use nothing happens lol

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

OK I just pulled the panel from the front deck where the 4 pin TM plug goes into--- on the back of that plug in is where the 2 reds and 2 blks connect at.
they are labeled batt pos 1 , batt pos 2 , batt neg 1, batt neg 2 .

the 2 reds are connected to one side and the 2 blacks are connected to other side.

what now : )


thank for yr help
md

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Does your boat have a Marinco 4 blade plug/socket for the trolling motor? (If so read on)



The Marinco socket has separate connections for each battery on the back side of the socket, 4 connections, + and - for each battery. The plug is jumpered internally so when you plug it into the socket, 24V is available at the + and - connections inside the socket,,, and to the trolling motor. (Or the plug can be wired to deliver 12V)

Marinco's website has instructions on how to wire up the plug and socket,,, though they are not the greatest in the world...

http://www.marinco.com/files/support/products/manuals/101384.pdf

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Ha ! funny you should post that pix while i was outside working.

That is exactly what my plug looks like --before I saw your post I had actually dismantled the plug and I matched the red wire to go to the red wire leading to my 24v setup

I matched the black wire in plug to connect with black wire going to 24v system.

PLugged in and tested at 25volts to the plug -- plugged in TM and my prop spins --altho I have to confess I expected more power on the prop spinning -- 70lb thrust and all that.

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

I hope you'll pardon the question, but I think the Edge has 5 speeds on board or an optional foot pedal with variable speed control. Could it be the speed is on a medium to low setting?

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

How did you determine the motor is not providing the power you expected? These motors do not spin very fast.

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Yes it has a 5 speed system and it is on 5 --- LOL I guess I just expected a little bit of VROOOOMMMM

I guess the ultimate test is get it on the water and see how it handles -- you dont fish in West Texas unless you fish in 15- 25 mph winds.

In Summary I learned a lot with your help
The boat originally came with a 12v 24v TM system -- It had battery 1 red and blk wires, and Battery 2 red and black wires. Battery 2 wires are now stuffed in the corner no longer needed. Whoever wired the plug into the TM did not do it properly to use a straight 24v system. So once I rewired the actual plug I got power to the motor and verified that it was showing at 24 voltage. I now have my 2 12 volt deep cycle batterys conformed into a 24v system with yr help.

I do have a new question about re hooking my charging system to the batteries -- I guess I will post a thread about that

TYVM for everyone's knowledge

md

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Tealc11 said:

The boat originally came with a 12v 24v TM system -- It had battery 1 red and blk wires, and Battery 2 red and black wires. Battery 2 wires are now stuffed in the corner no longer needed. Whoever wired the plug into the TM did not do it properly to use a straight 24v system. So once I rewired the actual plug I got power to the motor and verified that it was showing at 24 voltage. I now have my 2 12 volt deep cycle batterys conformed into a 24v system with yr help.

Click to expand...

WHOOOA NELLY!

The wiring is not configured properly, it might be working, but it's not wired like Marinco (and anyone else) wants or expects,,, could cause some problems further down the road, melted wiring, burned boat

When using the Marinco plug/socket, the batteries are not directly jumpered to themselves to produce 24V, they are connected to the socket and look like 2 individual 12V sources inside the socket. The jumpering for 24V is done in the plug (look for a metal jumper strap going across 2 of the lugs in the plug) and once you insert the plug into the socket, the troller sees 24V and the batteries are now in series. If you do not have the metal jumper strap inside the plug then I guess it's missing, probably because the old TM was 12V and didn't use the jumper.

If I'm reading this correctly, you need to remove the jumper wire from between the 2 batteries and then connect the loose wires for battery #2, back to battery #2 so the socket is wired properly. Once that is done, you will need to configure the plug correctly with the TM wires and jumper in the proper positions.

Without the socket and plug wired properly you will be pulling all the power for the trolling motor down 1 set of wires when it was designed to split the load between 2 sets of wires, decreased performance of the TM and possibility of overheating/melting the wire.

Also, with the socket/plug wired properly, when you disconnect the plug the batteries are no longer connected in series and you will not run the risk of blowing up your charger. Though it depends on if your charger has independent outputs or not...

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

ARRRGGGH (facepalm) lol so close and yet so far

OK you seem to be really on top of things so maybe we can get it straightened out.

It is a Marinco plug exactly like the one in your picture.

on the back of the plug it has 3 holes for wires 24 12 -

I did see a metal strip going from the 12 spot to a part of the plug that didnt have a hole for wire insertion.

So 1 red wire and 1 black wire from actual TM goes into plug. currently I have red into the 24 spot and black into the 12 spot , and my batterys are set up in 24v setup running 1 red and 1 black to the plug receptacle.

So if I read what you are saying correctly - you recommend I seperate the 2 12v batteries again -- each having its own red and blk cables running to the plug receptacle. I can do all that easy enough -- but again im not sure how to wire that plug. 2 wires 3 holes?????

I already have enough grey hair

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Just because there are three slots for wires doesn't mean you NEED three wires. You need 24 volts to the motor. The motor has two wires. You also don't need to run all four wires from the batteries to the receptacle. That setup was done to accommodate dual voltage motors. Otherwise the standard two pin troller plug could be used for both 12 volt or 24 motors. Just match the red wire from the troller to the red wire from the battery and the black to black. Then go fishing.

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Yeah,,, those Marinco instructions are for cr@p!

1- remove jumper wire from between your batteries so you no longer have a 24V system
2- reconnect the second set of wires to battery #2 and properly connect the first set of wires to battery #1

Now you will have 2- 12V circuits on the recepticle,,, might want to test it with a volt meter...

I just so happen to have a Marinco plug sitting in front of me (Lucky you ) and you need to connect the TM + wire to the hole marked 24,,, and the TM - wire to the hole marked -. Nothing goes into the 12 hole.

The jumper between the 12 hole and blocked hole completes the series battery connection to give you 24V,,, it does the same thing as the jumper wire you had between the batteries

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

OK I reset the 2 batteries both going to the plug receptacle on their own red and black wires. PLugged in the TM and it does spin.

I then unhooked battery 2 and the spinning of the prop stayed the same -no difference in speed --- the whole thing seems to me like its running on just one of the batteries ---which also would explain what I perceive as lack of power (thrust) ---- If I try and run it on just batt 2 it doesnt spin at all.

It seems to me if the TM was getting juice from both batteries and I unhook one I would see the prop speed change a tad.

The plug itself has 3 holes I have the red from TM going into the 24 hole and the Black going into the hole that says 12 ( it is the only hole that has a metal strip <jumper> attached to it. My only other option is the hole that is marked (-) but I dont see how that would be a better option. How in the heck do the 2 batteries mesh into 24v if you dont use the hole with a jumper connected.

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Wait a sec,,, was replying to what ST said...

The socket/plug was also designed so you can easily break the 24V series battery connection for charging,,, without having to disconnect battery cables. If your onboard charger doesn't have independent charging circuits (my old one didn't) you will cook the charger if the batteries are connected in series while charging,,, don't ask how I found out...

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

LOL Fishrdan and silvertip TY for your help -- It does seem like 2 different things I am getting told --- but I appreciate all the input.

I understand what you are saying Silvertip but Dan seems to think that isnt a wise choice because I am using the wiring to transfer 24v to the front of my boat when it was made for 12v . He says the PLUG itself will transfer the power into a 24v for the TM to feed from.

OK Dan --IM going back outside to put that wire into the (-) hole instead of the 12 hole and see what happens

wish me luck

md

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Tealc11 said:

OK I reset the 2 batteries both going to the plug receptacle on their own red and black wires. PLugged in the TM and it does spin.

I then unhooked battery 2 and the spinning of the prop stayed the same -no difference in speed --- the whole thing seems to me like its running on just one of the batteries ---which also would explain what I perceive as lack of power (thrust) ---- If I try and run it on just batt 2 it doesnt spin at all.

It seems to me if the TM was getting juice from both batteries and I unhook one I would see the prop speed change a tad.

The plug itself has 3 holes I have the red from TM going into the 24 hole and the Black going into the hole that says 12 ( it is the only hole that has a metal strip <jumper> attached to it. My only other option is the hole that is marked (-) but I dont see how that would be a better option. How in the heck do the 2 batteries mesh into 24v if you dont use the hole with a jumper connected.

Click to expand...

The batteries are connected to the socket properly, but the plug is wrong, move the black TM wire to the - hole in the plug.

With the way you have it connected, using the 24 and 12 holes, you were only running off battery #1. The TM was getting ground from battery #1 through the jumper strap and the second battery wasn't being seen in the circuit, that's why it seemed the power was off and nothing happened when you disconnected #2 battery.

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

HOUSTON we no longer have a problem !!!!

Dan I switched that wire from the 12 hole to the (-) and that damn thing FINALLY started spinning like I would expect a 70lb thrust to do !!!!

I came back in and yelled " YA BABY" scared my wife to death

I am so jazzed now , you guys really know your $tuff

Silver thx for yr posts.

Since my batteries are not joined together at the source I guess I just hook up my onboard plug in charger with pos and neg leads to each battery and I am golden. Sound about rite????

This whole mess started I believe, because whoever installed the TM left the wiring in the plug the same -- only it was an old 12v 24v TM with a switch that was replaced. --needed to change that hole !!!!!!!!

tyvm md

tym again
md

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Tealc11 said:

LOL Fishrdan and silvertip TY for your help -- It does seem like 2 different things I am getting told

Click to expand...

Yeah, it would have worked the way ST said, but I've found it easier to keep things installed by the MFG's instructions so I'm not guessing how I did it 5 years down the road...

Tealc11 said:

HOUSTON we no longer have a problem !!!!

Since my batteries are not joined together at the source I guess I just hook up my onboard plug in charger with pos and neg leads to each battery and I am golden. Sound about rite????

Click to expand...

Yup, connect the charger circuits to the batteries and you are good to go. Don't know how old your charger is, but if it doesn't have independent charging circuits be sure to unplug the TM before charging. If in doubt, disconnect.

Re: Darn this TM cant fish !!

Roger That !!! Always charge with TM unplugged ---got it!

Hopefully when I start trying to fix other stuff on this bass boat -- it wont be as hard to figure out.....


Thx again for the assist

md