Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

salmonee

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
408
I've seen those little whaler around here on craigslist and they seem to be priced fairly expensive compared to other boats. I did some research today and apparently their known for their smooth ride. Do a little open 17' Montauk ride better than say a big 21' Bayliner open bow when weather starts to pick up?
 

RotaryRacer

Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
1,361
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

I think the Bayliner would ride smoother. It probably isn't more "seaworthy" but it would ride smoother as it is a traditional v-hull. The extra length and weight would help it ride smoother also.
 

vandy21

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
375
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

Own a bayliner, but I'd say Whaler
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,019
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

I trust a whaler in just about any weather..... however, owning a whaler should not be a reason to go places and do dumb things during bad weather. No boat is comfortable in bad weather and as the operator you should never feel that level of comfort...... always be aware of the water and weather.

IMO the whaler tends to make a novice a bit more confident then it should.
 

crackedglass

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
199
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

The first wave over the bow will cure that.

You would think so but it's not always the case. A buddy of mine bought a 13' Whaler, brand new, with a max hp jet drive motor. He thought he had the baddest ride on the river till he stuffed it in the muddy bottom once and ate the top of the console. It popped right back up but that was all I could say about it. Seven teeth and several thousand dollars later he had a full size V hull with a more moderate motor on it. (He was the type of guy that would roost everyone and reek havoc all day and forget that everyone launched and loaded from the same dock. The consequences rarely sunk in till he loaded his boat and we all caught up to him. He had graduated from a jet flea to a Whaler and never lost the jet flea mentality on the water. Their right, they won't sink, but they sure do get ugly when they hit bottom at full throttle, (or the dock, pilings, buoys, and what ever else he slammed it into over the course of a few weeks).

One of his tricks was to do a fly by while you were fishing, he hit one guy pretty hard one day, another day, we were ready for him, some blue paint, a 2 liter bottle of soda and some Mentos tossed in his boat as he buzzed by did the trick.

And to answer the above question, I'd think that the 21' Bayliner would ride better due the increased deadrise and shear size difference as well as weight.

I've never been a fan of the Whaler type hull, they have their purpose but I've always found them best suited to back bays and more shallow water than out in big water.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

i have been following your post. here is my opinion. I think you really need to rent several different types of boats. join on of the boat rental clubs for this season. get use to boating, then go looking for a boat. you want a smooth ride, and water sports. maybe a tritoon is what you are looking for. other than that, it sure sounds like you have no idea what you really want and need.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,468
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

it sure sounds like you have no idea what you really want and need.

Ayuh,... No kiddin',....

Also,...
There's just No way in 'ell you can compare a 17' boat to a 21' boat.....
It's Apples,+ Oranges.....

You need to get Away from your keyboard,+ get out on the water....
There, you can Learn what the heck you Want...
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

There have been at least three different 17' Boston Whaler hulls and all ride differently.

The first was made from about 1966 to about 1973. It was (is) a very stable boat but pounds in a chop. Mine was a 1966 Sakonnet 16. Loved that boat (Sunshine) but didn't run fast in a chop.

The second was the Bob Dougherty design ("smirked" bow) that was used from 1973 to 2000. It pounded less but was not a luxo-cruise boat. It was the best small fisherman ever built. Mine was a 1980 Montauk 17 (Sunshine III).

The current 170 is a lot more of a cruiser and less a fisherman. Rides a lot smoother than the earlier Whalers but not as stable.

I don't think any other make boat holds its value the way Whalers do. That is why pre-owned Whalers seem to cost so much. I, for example, would rather have a mid-80s Montauk 17 or Outrage 18 than a new whatever.
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

Wow...what a comparison! Two completely different boat types with completely different use patterns.

As Tashasdaddy said, I don't think you know what you want at all. Maybe we should revisit your goals for your boating. Realistically, what do you think you're going to do with your boat? Realistically.

Given that you've been looking for a couple of years, and still haven't bought a boat, I'm betting that you'll end up using up garage space rather than using the boat.

I don't think I could stand not having a boat of some kind. If I didn't have any money, I'd watch Craigs List for a freebie and get back on the water.

If you're just in love with the idea of boating, and are satisfying your urge by looking for a boat, then you're on the right track. I'd add some boat shows to your quest.

If you really, really want to go boating, buy something that floats and has a working engine. It probably won't be the boat you'll be using two years from now, but you'll at least be on the water. You'll find all sorts of things you don't like about it, and will be smarter the next time you buy a boat.

Given the enormous range of boat types you've mentioned here as possibilities, you're simply not going to know what kind of boat you'll finally like until you start driving your boat around.

There are no boats that don't make noise. There are no boats that don't bounce around a bit in rough water. There are no boats that combine suitability for river fishing, lake fishing, and ocean fishing with water skiing, tubing, and cruising. None. There are no used boats that can't stand a little sprucing up to make them feel newer.

Buy a boat. Don't spend a fortune. Just buy something that floats and has a running engine. Get a cheap boat, then use the heck out of it. After a full season of use, sell it and buy one that will better suit your needs, since you'll have discovered what your needs are in that season.

Get wet. Get dirty. Get bounced around a little. Go slow. Go fast. Go fishing. Have a picnic on an island somewhere after pulling your boat up on a beach. Tie up at a local restaurant that has a dock and swap stories with the others who have done the same. Drag someone around on a tube for an hour or two. Dive off the boat in some quiet cove and swim around, then climb back in and speed away. Get a sunburn on your face because you forgot the sunscreen, then watch it peel over the next week. Kiss someone on the water somewhere.

Mix some fuel and oil. Change the oil in a lower unit. Put in some spark plugs. Bang the boat against a dock on a windy day and look at the scratches that caused. Clear weeds off the lower unit of your outboard or outdrive while hanging off the transom. Curse a rock that has dinged your prop. Curse the anchor that snagged up on a rocky bottom, then go buy a new one and and a new rope.

Come back to the launch ramp on a day where the wind came up while you were out and struggle to get your boat back on its trailer. Get some help from another boater, and help another boater. Forget your pfds and have to drive home to get them. Forget your boat key on your dresser and have to drive home to get them. Forget to put in the transom plug and have to run the bilge pump for an hour after you put it back in. Lose a prized fishing pole over the side.

Buy a boat. Any decent boat. Go boating!
 

spudshaft

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
137
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

That was a great response CATransplant.
 

salmonee

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
408
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

Thanks for the inspiring words Cat. I was thinking about my boating goals again during the long ride home over the weekend. I don't think I/O are for me. I like the seating arrangement for family outings but don't like it for fishing. Having fish slime all over those seats would leave me wondering what I was thinking when I picked up this boat. Kind of like when I picked up a luxury car w/ leather at 21. I hated taking care of it and sold it a few months later for one with cloth interior. I don't like the loud motor most of all. Kind of steal the serenity of boating moments, I think. I definitely didn't like the fiberglass banging on the docs as the owner was trying to get on trailer with the wind blowing. It was hard to watch. I would have been PO and cussed at myself to never go out on windy days again!

I spoke with the owner of a Wellcraft 180 Fisherman w/ 115 Yamaha I was considering last fall. He still got the boat. He is selling due to not using it enough but am not desperate to sell it for $$ either. The outboards was the only type of boat I really like, I think. But then, we tested it on a lake that was glass like and was probably not a fair comparison for ride ability. I like this boat for fishing and could accomadate family outings. The weather is going to be a problem on this boat. I will need a custom top for sun protection. The wind well...I guess the family stays home on windy days. I feel the hit on this boat if I sell it after a season would be minimal as well. Downside is he's four hours away...
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

I sort of remember that boat, and it seemed pretty good at the time. It ran well on the water, if I remember right.

It sounds like a good sort of first boat, and would give you some experience on the water. I don't remember how much it was, but I'd seriously consider it.

As for only testing it on a calm day, that's no big deal, really. It'll probably ride as well as any other v-hull of that size in rougher water. None of the small boats are a joy when the water gets rough, frankly, but it'll handle the usual chop and small swells OK, I'm sure.

Add a bimini top to it, keep it nice, and you'll probably get your money back when you sell it. Condition is everything.

The guy might come down a little, but who knows. I'd go down and see it again, maybe take another ride, but take your money with you. If it's still running good and riding OK, hand over the cash and tow it home.

Then you can start boating. Where you are, boating season is almost here, and you can start using it right away. Go out every chance you get, in any decent weather and fish and do whatever you plan to do. Get used to being on the water. The engine noise will seem quieter after a while, and you'll get used to the feeling of being in a boat.

Add a few things, like rod holders and the like and make it your boat. Put a funny name on it. Get yourself one of those boating hats...or two...since you'll have at least one blow overboard at speed.

Go have some fun!
 

RotaryRacer

Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
1,361
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

Get wet. Get dirty. Get bounced around a little. Go slow. Go fast. Go fishing. Have a picnic on an island somewhere after pulling your boat up on a beach. Tie up at a local restaurant that has a dock and swap stories with the others who have done the same. Drag someone around on a tube for an hour or two. Dive off the boat in some quiet cove and swim around, then climb back in and speed away. Get a sunburn on your face because you forgot the sunscreen, then watch it peel over the next week. Kiss someone on the water somewhere.

Mix some fuel and oil. Change the oil in a lower unit. Put in some spark plugs. Bang the boat against a dock on a windy day and look at the scratches that caused. Clear weeds off the lower unit of your outboard or outdrive while hanging off the transom. Curse a rock that has dinged your prop. Curse the anchor that snagged up on a rocky bottom, then go buy a new one and and a new rope.

Come back to the launch ramp on a day where the wind came up while you were out and struggle to get your boat back on its trailer. Get some help from another boater, and help another boater. Forget your pfds and have to drive home to get them. Forget your boat key on your dresser and have to drive home to get them. Forget to put in the transom plug and have to run the bilge pump for an hour after you put it back in. Lose a prized fishing pole over the side.

Buy a boat. Any decent boat. Go boating!

I nominate this for best post of the year. It is exactly what I tried to say in another one of Salmonee's thread.
 

jqwhaler

Cadet
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
18
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

The Bayliner will probably ride better. I say that and I have a Whaler. The hull on the Whaler is not a deep Vee like you might find on the Bayliner.

The Bayliner will also sink much better than the Whaler:D

In a Whaler you will find a remarkable stout and stable platform that will not roll very much from side to side as a deep Vee would.

The Whalers are priced high because of the high quality of their construction. Due to this they usually age very well and hold value for resale very well.

Also their owners are generally superior. :p (I was mostly kidding there.)
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

To echo CATransplant: My boat is a closed bow which I hate. It's a waste of space and not great for fishing. I'd much prefer a bowrider. My boat has a fairly flat bottom and therefore pounds the ever loving' crap out of me on choppy days. I'd love to have a deeper V. My motor is old and a bit tempermental. I'd love to have a newer one with power trim. However, I love BOATING and this boat is what I have and it allows me to do that. I CAN fish from it, I CAN tube from it, and I CAN cruise around in it. Is it ideal for any of these? No, but it CAN do them.

Find a good running, rot free outboard powered boat that is supported with parts and HAVE FUN!
 

jfkkesler

Seaman
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
50
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

Wow...what a comparison! Two completely different boat types with completely different use patterns.

As Tashasdaddy said, I don't think you know what you want at all. Maybe we should revisit your goals for your boating. Realistically, what do you think you're going to do with your boat? Realistically.

Given that you've been looking for a couple of years, and still haven't bought a boat, I'm betting that you'll end up using up garage space rather than using the boat.

I don't think I could stand not having a boat of some kind. If I didn't have any money, I'd watch Craigs List for a freebie and get back on the water.

If you're just in love with the idea of boating, and are satisfying your urge by looking for a boat, then you're on the right track. I'd add some boat shows to your quest.

If you really, really want to go boating, buy something that floats and has a working engine. It probably won't be the boat you'll be using two years from now, but you'll at least be on the water. You'll find all sorts of things you don't like about it, and will be smarter the next time you buy a boat.

Given the enormous range of boat types you've mentioned here as possibilities, you're simply not going to know what kind of boat you'll finally like until you start driving your boat around.

There are no boats that don't make noise. There are no boats that don't bounce around a bit in rough water. There are no boats that combine suitability for river fishing, lake fishing, and ocean fishing with water skiing, tubing, and cruising. None. There are no used boats that can't stand a little sprucing up to make them feel newer.

Buy a boat. Don't spend a fortune. Just buy something that floats and has a running engine. Get a cheap boat, then use the heck out of it. After a full season of use, sell it and buy one that will better suit your needs, since you'll have discovered what your needs are in that season.

Get wet. Get dirty. Get bounced around a little. Go slow. Go fast. Go fishing. Have a picnic on an island somewhere after pulling your boat up on a beach. Tie up at a local restaurant that has a dock and swap stories with the others who have done the same. Drag someone around on a tube for an hour or two. Dive off the boat in some quiet cove and swim around, then climb back in and speed away. Get a sunburn on your face because you forgot the sunscreen, then watch it peel over the next week. Kiss someone on the water somewhere.

Mix some fuel and oil. Change the oil in a lower unit. Put in some spark plugs. Bang the boat against a dock on a windy day and look at the scratches that caused. Clear weeds off the lower unit of your outboard or outdrive while hanging off the transom. Curse a rock that has dinged your prop. Curse the anchor that snagged up on a rocky bottom, then go buy a new one and and a new rope.

Come back to the launch ramp on a day where the wind came up while you were out and struggle to get your boat back on its trailer. Get some help from another boater, and help another boater. Forget your pfds and have to drive home to get them. Forget your boat key on your dresser and have to drive home to get them. Forget to put in the transom plug and have to run the bilge pump for an hour after you put it back in. Lose a prized fishing pole over the side.

Buy a boat. Any decent boat. Go boating!

Easily the best post ever. Although it leaves out the potential "Money-Pit" aspect...
 

SuzukiChopper

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
782
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

CAT hit the nail on the head with his post.

You know, buying a boat is like buying a motorcycle or buying a house or buying a car. You'll never find EXACTLY what you need but you can find yourself a platform to start with. If you're handy with tools and willing to learn you can make things work for you. Personally, I have a tough time with a lot of things because I'm 6'4" and 220lbs. The second motorcycle I bought was too short, so I chopped it. The house I bought has a poorly placed floor joist so going down stairs is difficult (I plan on rectifying this). I spent a whole lot of time looking at a whole bunch of different vehicles that MAY fit me to find that I just had to accept the best compromise. My boat, I hated it. Closed bow, very little room for fishing (had to crawl over the windshield to get to the trolling motor)... so I read and read and learned and got opinions on a plan. Cut open the bow and now will have a single starboard console with a bunch of room. With some thinking, compromises, and ingenuity... it'll also make an awesome cruising boat.

The more you look and the more you second guess yourself and second guess what you're looking at without thinking outside of the box a little bit... the longer it will be until you actually buy and own your boat. See the forest through the trees and realize that if you can't modify what you buy to what you need, you can always sell and buy something else. You definitely do need to get out on the water first though to really truly find out what you and your family needs for a boat.
 

pcrussell50

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
296
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

To echo CATransplant: My boat is a closed bow which I hate. It's a waste of space and not great for fishing. I'd much prefer a bowrider. My boat has a fairly flat bottom and therefore pounds the ever loving' crap out of me on choppy days. I'd love to have a deeper V. My motor is old and a bit tempermental. I'd love to have a newer one with power trim. However, I love BOATING and this boat is what I have and it allows me to do that. I CAN fish from it, I CAN tube from it, and I CAN cruise around in it. Is it ideal for any of these? No, but it CAN do them.

Find a good running, rot free outboard powered boat that is supported with parts and HAVE FUN!

i _like_ my closed bow boats. it's dry storage, with easy access. and i can fish off the bow. and i find them better looking than open bow boats too.

but i love whalers and boats that look like them, too, so go figure :)

i guess i just love boats...BRAVO, CAT!

mad max, a light 16 with a 135

the little lady moura 13.5', no bilge, no carpet

both combined for under two grand, and nonstop fun.

-peter
 

grego

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
328
Re: Which rides better: 17' Whaler or 21' Bayliner

Just gave my old bayliner away to a friend for cheap. I have seen and helped many boats, in distress. bayliner boats tend to be very reliable, do not understand why some people think that they are cheap and will buy a lesser "more exspenive" boat . Guess it is name only!
 
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