Carbs

tshupe5

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
48
1987 Yamaha prov 150-I just talked to the tech at Yamaha who did a troubleshoot on my low RPM problem and he said he is confident that there is a blockage.He said he thinks there is a restriction where the fuel line hooks to the carb.Inside the carb on the other side of the nipple is a passage which carries the feul into the carb.He said those are hard to clean out on those older carbs.I asked the best way to do it and he said to soak.I have purchased the GUNK brand of carb and parts cleaner.Can I use that.I recently did a rebuild and did not soak the body and was afraid there may be issues with not getting everything cleaned out.Is it ok to soak the body in the GUNK for a few hours to ensure a good cleaning?I will be tearing down the carbs again tommorrow.He took it out to the water and said it would only get to about 2800 RPM until he had another guy pump the ball.He had to sqeeze it very hard and it kicked up to about 3500 RPM for around 30 seconds then went back down.He took the airhood off and sprayed gas into carbs while running and it jumped up and stayed there as long as he sprayed.He choked it while running at 2800 RPM and it tried to die so this is how he explained to me that is why he thinks it is in that nipple passage. ????
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Carbs

myself I would replace the pump for general maint then go clean the carbs.
there is a tech bulliten on flow testing the carb inlets and a bulliten on how to add a cleanout passage.
personnaly I have never seen it but I guess it can happen.
carefully check the carb mainjets for blockage and consult a manual as some of the older engines used different mains on the port and stbd sides.
and if your still using the cowl quick connect be aware that the oring on the engine side can and will swell and restrict fuel to the pump.
I usually remove it and plumb the fuel directly to the engine fuel filter.
 

tshupe5

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
48
Re: Carbs

Hey Rodbolt,

Nice to see you are still helping us non-techs with mechanical ability and very limited knowledge on marine motors.We all owe you a bunch.Yeah, I picked up the boat from the dealer and the Tech gave me that bulletin on the water test.I tested all three carbs and the top two had the steady stream.The bottom one was spitting and stopping up then spitting again.The test proved to be worthy in my case.The inlet tube was clogged.I tore the carb down and cleaned it real good again.This time I soaked the body in the same stuff the dealer uses(Evenrude/Johnson Engine Tuner).Great stuff for soaking carb bodies over night.I reassembled the carb and did another water test and it was perfect.Have not put in the water yet because of the cold wheather but I am pretty confident I have finally fixed the problem.What an ordeal!My motor does not have the quick connect on the coul side, straight hose to filter. I did replace the two pumps as well.Hoping for the best, thanks for the great advice!
 

EAVES

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
75
Re: Carbs

X2 on what rodbolt said
I recently invested in a Sonic Cleaner and i love it for the ones running a shop if you can get one its worth every penny
 

tshupe5

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
48
Re: Carbs

Now I am very P...sed off. After 8 months of replacing and searching, and a recent $112.00 bill to Apopka Marine in Inverness Florida, my boat is still experiencing the same thing it started out with.I was hoping the Tech at the dealer was right. After all, why are they called certified?With my trust in the hands of a so called proffesional,I was flat out lied to by the tech himself. He told me he was positive the problem was a blocked inlet on the bottom carb. I persistantly told him I just went through the carbs and did not agree.I asked what type of tests he did. He did a compression test and took it out to the lake and ran it. Then he charged me $112.00 and sent me on my way.Turns out I was right and wasted more time and money by taking my boat in to the dealer and then going through the carbs again myself.In return I have no solution.I even asked why he did not perform a vaccum test and check the electrical.He said because he knew what the problem was. BULL S#*@T. I am so fed up. Can anyone please help?1987 pro v Yamaha 150. I can get it up on plane and runs good up to about 4000 rpms or roughly 100 yards then it falls on its face and cannot get a consistent high RPM out of it.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Carbs

I know your unhappy but this is the way it is.
we are sitting,looking at a monitor relying on your description.
your describing a lack of fuel in the intake manifold.
why I havent a clue, some educated guess's but no clue as to why.
while its possible to have a bad high speed charge coil you have stated that by spraying fuel into the carb it picks up and runs.
your description eliminates ign as a problem.
I will tell you if its a lean out problem and you continue monkying with it it WILL smoke a piston.
a carbed merc or jonny rude would have long since done it as they feed both the oil and the fuel through the carb.
the yamaha carbed oil injected models inject oil into the intake.
if your not happy with that dealership use the yamaha outboard dealer locator and find a dealership with a master tech,remember 5 star is simply a 20 min video course, and take it to them with the request that only a master tech look at it.
if not you will have to make or purchase the equipment to test the hull fuel system for vacum and the electrical test equipment to test seconday ign output at the problem RPM.
here is where the correct equipment coupled with test wheel YB1626 comes in very handy.
I would start with a compression and spark test.
dont care what compression was yesterday I want to know what it is the day I start troubleshooting.
piston failure is incredibly rapid and can happen in a matter of minutes.
if spark can jump a 7/16th gap then I know the secondary side can supply the correct secondary voltage.
if compression is good I know the engine mechanically can make power.
next I would hook up my boat in a box fuel pump kit.
this consists of an electric pump, a flow meter.a vacum guage and a throttling valve.
its rather expensive but a reasonable subsitute can be made.
I would hook up the boat in a box fuel system intake to the outlet side of the engine fuel filter, place the outlet hose in the tank fill hose.
turn on the pump and adjust flow to about 20 gallons per hour.
we know your 150 can only burn about 15 gallons an hour at WOT on a good day.
then I would look at my vacum gauge, it should show at least 1" Hg and no more than 4" Hg for about 10 min.
to make one use a rotory electric pump UL rated for gasoline with a flow rating of at least 30 GPH.
buy a decent vacum gauge preferably with a 0-10"Hg scale.
T fittings as nessasary.
now to figgure flow.
here is where a gallon jug and a stop watch and some 5th grade math comes into play.
with the pump at open flow from a bucket how long does it take to pump one gallon in one minute.
this gives an open flow reading at the pump outlet.
use a suitable choke and choke the outlet to obtain a flow of about 20 gallons per hour.
then hook the rig to the outlet of the engine filter with the vacum guage t'eed in and measure fuel system vacum at that flow.
this is why I dont like the clear vinyl tubing and high speed running method of teaching.
I have seen techs blow pistons chasing fuel problems.
like I say, two strokes simply dont tolerate lean burns for long and piston failure can happen in seconds at or near WOT.
have you tested your alarm system to insure the RPM limiting function isnt trying to protect the motor?
however by your description of simply spraying fuel down the carbs makes it go tends to eliminate that too.
that description is why I keep saying someplace between the liquid level in your fuel tank and the intake manifold we cannot move enough fuel to keep the cylinders happy. have you tried a known good remote tank plumbed directly to the intake side of the engine filter?
when playing with fuel systems you have to break it into hull systems,everything between the liquid level in the tank to the engine filter intake and engine systems which includes everything from the engine fuel filter to the crankcase side of the reed box assy's.
by spraying fuel directly into the carbs your bypassing all systems except the reed box's.
 

tshupe5

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
48
Re: Carbs

Wow Rodbolt, that is the longest thread I have seen to date on this great forum. I really, really look up to you and look foward to reading your advice,Thank You.I did not spray the carbs myself.The tech at the shop told me that is what he did at the lake after running a compression check and "has good spark" however he tested that.After reading your advice for months now I was well prepared with a variety of questions which included a vaccum test and testing the electrical.Both were not performed.He simply said he could get the motor to rev higher when he sprayed gas into the bottom carb.He did not elaberate.I am not bad with mechanical repairs and I feel confident that after going through the carbs twice now that it is not a carb issue.I know that does not jive with the so called spray test the tech did.Yesterday I took the boat out and ran it up to right at 4000 RPM and then it just fell on its face down to 2500 RPM.The strange thing is this; I can get the RPMS to run up when I start turning hard left and right but only short bursts.I did an external tank run with a 5 gallon can from the garage.I was leary, did not seem right to just put the hose inside the can and run with no lid.Should I buy a real outboard portable and try it again?And I did test the oil alarm system which was working.Is there another alarm to check besides the oil?
 

tshupe5

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
48
Re: Carbs

Tommorrow I am going to buy a remote tank and plumb it directly to the intake side of the engine filter.Is there a certain type of spray bottle that will spray gas?I will get that as well and spray the carbs myself to see if it really does pick up the RPMs.I am ready to iether get this resolved very soon or give up on it and park it just to save the stress.
 
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