Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

chillin014 · Feb 16, 2009

I'm trying to change my impeller on my 1990 50 horse Force. So I remove the lower and upper gear housing together along with the drive shaft as shown in the Force manual I have. I should be able to "lift" the drive shaft straight out after loosening the waterpump housing but it will NOT come out. Its has play in it, wiggles up and down about half an inch but it simply wont come out any further. I started trying to remove the propeller and lower gear housing to try to get at it from that end but I cant seem to separate the lower gear housing from the upper. I have tried everything I can think of...is this common? What is the problem? I have been jiggling and shifting the clutch with the shifter rod and everything with no luck.

please help...I'm afraid to get too aggressive with it and break something expensive.

I'm thinking the driveshaft just must be seized in where it connects on the bottom...maybe I will try to squirt some anti-seize stuff and just try forcing it..

Frank Acampora · Feb 16, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

Most likely the shaft is not stuck. There is a pin drive in the shaft for the impeller and it will slide in the slot in the impeller until it hits the pump seal. to remove the shaft, you must remove the pump completely, not just loosen it. OR, you can simply force the pin up through the seal, destroying the seal and possibly the pin.

Curious: Why do you want to remove the drive shaft? Did you hit something and twist off the top splines?

chillin014 · Feb 16, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

I have completely removed the pump and slid it up the drive shaft so I know what your talking about with the pin but thats not the problem as I have removed the pin already. I feel like it has something to do with the fact that I cant remove the lower gear housing either...something seems stuck.

I need to remove the drive shaft so I can slide the impeller off of it and replace it. This is what it says to do in the Force Manual I have I assume because the seal/race or whatever it is pressed on top of the driveshaft doesnt allow the water pump body/impeller to slide over it due to its size.

Frank Acampora · Feb 16, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

Unless Force changed it (which I doubt) the drive shaft is splined into the pinion and should just slip out. If at some time it was forced down, it may be jammed into the pinion. There would also be a plain bronze bushing as the top bearing, under the water pump. Pulling up on the shaft should not damage anything. You may need to use an impact hammer to pop it.

As far as separating the housing, If there is still a stud in the front, this stud tends to corrode into the upper case and can be very difficult to pull. Somtimes it needs 16 ounce psychology and that can **** up the threads so be careful if you beat on it.

chillin014 · Feb 16, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

there is a seal above that lower bearing (under the water pump) that your talking about which I havent pulled out..I'm wondering if that is hitting the seal and preventing it from coming out. I'll try removing that first..and pray thats the problem. I dont know how to use an impact gun for that though?

There are two studs for the lower housing, a long and a short one. The long one goes all the way up through the upper gear housing, so maybe your right and its corroded as there was some corrosion in various spots on the case. I was using a hammer on that upper stud but yeah I didnt want to hit it TOO hard. I wish I just hadnt tried to take the lower portion apart but I got it separated a little bit on one side so now I feel like I might as well tear into it and replace more seals. I hate leaks.

thanks for the help. I'll definitely report back tomorrow with what I end up doing.

chillin014 · Feb 17, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

okay some good news and some irritating news.
As we suspected, there is was a bronze sleeve below a seal pressed into the housing (under the water pump). There was no way the drive shaft was coming out without removing that seal so I dont know WHY that wasn't in the force manual.

Anyhow, I got that out and now I'm still struggling with the lower gear housing. I'm really trying not to damage the mating surfaces but it doesnt want to separate right around the front (opposite the propeller) stud. I've squirted all kinds of liquid wrench and I'm using chisels and hammers and pry bars..its ridiculous. I know I didnt skip a step...

I started thinking that I could sandwich two nuts on the top stud and then put an impact wrench on it and try to rotate the whole stud if its corroded but I'm already stripping the top of the damn stud as it is I just want to separate this crap.

chillin014 · Feb 17, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

what a huge pain in the ***. I had to basically unthread the upper housing from the lower to unthread that long stud which is still stuck in the upper housing.
luckily a parts website has this stud available incase I cant get it out/repair the threads.

ugh...I've got my work cut out for me.

Also. So the driveshaft wouldnt come out because it was supposed to be able to slide through that bronze bearing which was stuck to it then making the diameter too wide to go through the seal hole. What should I do about this? Obviously the driveshaft should be spinning inside this bearing rather than spinning the bearing itself...I guess I'll try to remove it and clean the surfaces and grease it?

Frank Acampora · Feb 17, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

Sounds like water got in there at one time and the shaft corroded to the bronze bushing or the previous owner ran it too low on oil and the bushing was dry. Friction will weld the shaft to it. If you find the shaft is too badly damaged to re-use, private message me. I have an old one from a Chrysler 45 that probably will fit.

If the bushing hole is now too big for a new one, use a little hardening type Permatex to coat the surfaces. That will probably hold it.

chillin014 · Feb 17, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

Frank Acampora said:
Sounds like water got in there at one time and the shaft corroded to the bronze bushing or the previous owner ran it too low on oil and the bushing was dry. Friction will weld the shaft to it. If you find the shaft is too badly damaged to re-use, private message me. I have an old one from a Chrysler 45 that probably will fit.

If the bushing hole is now too big for a new one, use a little hardening type Permatex to coat the surfaces. That will probably hold it.

Thanks, ill let you know after I press it off tomorrow. The rest of the driveshaft looks pretty good but I also noticed the top seal was missing, maybe still in the motor. I'm more worried about that bearing whole being bored out than anything. Are you sure permatex would hold it rather than jb weld or something?

It was probably water...all the oil is milky.

Frank Acampora · Feb 17, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

Well, I was going to recommend JB weld, but then you would never get it (the bushing) out if you needed to replace it. My philosophy on this type repair is to start with the least permanent solution and work from there.

There are many things you could try: For example, soak the new bushing in solvent to be certain all oil is removed then coat the outside with a thin layer of solder. Might make it just thick enough to press in properly. Or, ream the hole and buy the next thickest bushing if a decent size is available. OR-- ream the hole to accept a caged needle bearing in the shaft size--that would be a nice upgrade. All depends upon the challenge you want or what you are willing to invest in time and money.

chillin014 · Feb 17, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

thats true. I dont have the tools for solder unfortunately. I wouldnt know where to start in getting the proper inside/outside needle bearing..any recommendations?

Right now I'm a little overwhelmed to be honest. Luckily all the bearings and races looked pretty good in the lower gear housing. I need to take care of these studs and make sure I have all the proper seals and that I wont need any special tools to install them.

chillin014 · Feb 18, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

okay the very top "seal" bronze piece that goes on the top of the drive shaft is shoved up in the motor...so that solves that mystery. I dont know if I should bother trying to take the whole bottom part of the motor off or what. I also found some odd rubber bulbous piece laying loose in there. No clue what that is.

As far as the bearing that was stuck to the drive shaft, it goes inside the bore of the gear housing fairly easily...doesnt need to be pressed in. It does not easily slide on the drive shaft, it would have to be forced on...its almost as if it shrunk or something after being heated up. I think that bearing is like 30+ bucks from crowleymarine. So I'm still looking at my options as far as that goes.

Frank Acampora · Feb 18, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

At 30 bucks, I'm getting the feeling that you are getting scr---d without getting kissed first. While bearings and bushings can be expensive, I would not expect to pay more than 10 bucks for that plain bushing.

If you live anywhere near a city, there will be manufacturers and they always use bearings. Thus there will be a bearing supply store. Look them up in the yellow pages. Take the lower unit, shaft, and bushing to them. Explain your problem and if they have anything on the ball, they will be able to help you.

Without seeing it I would guess that the bulbous rubber thing is the top driveshaft seal. It functions simply ti keep water from entering the splines in the crankshaft and rusting it. It is usually held with a collar on the drive shaft.

It is not absolutely necessary: if you coat the splines lightly but thoroughly with anti-seize compound, that should help prevent it.

chillin014 · Feb 18, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

yeah probably low supply pricing (any other parts websites you know of for Force?). I live in Houston, we are bound to have something but it'll take some searching.
I'll take some pictures of what I'm looking at.

got the part number (F435057) but the cheapest price I could find was like 25 bucks.

chillin014 · Feb 24, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

I'm going to go ahead and splurge on these parts and just get this over with. I found some info in the manual that leads me to believe that the bearing was supposed to have a protrusion the length of it which would fit into a recessed area inside the housing which I noticed even seemed to have some sort of weep hole in it. If this is the case...this will a great relief regarding the bearing spinning with the driveshaft and not being a tight enough fit in its housing.
I need a new waterpump housing as well i suppose since the one I have is fairly pitted. I hope this is just a sign of it having a good ammount of use and these parts dont wear out quickly...I dont want to do this again for the rest of my ownership of this boat.

chillin014 · Feb 28, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

I went and bought a press thinking that the stud couldnt possibly resist the force of the press. Well I was wrong, that stud must be frickin MELTED to the housing. I've resorted to drilling the stud out which is one of the most aggravating things I've had to mess with mechanically. Part of it is because I know if I dont make this work there is unlikely a cheap alternative.
The only positive thing I have to report is that I found a long threaded rod which is ironically the correct thread pitch for the lower housing and I may use this and return the 15 dollar pieces I purchased from an online vendor. Any little bit helps...

chillin014 · Mar 1, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

TONIGHT I will sleep well. After hours of prying, beating, heating, cutting, and drilling, I have finally extracted the remains off the stud. I really wish it would have just pressed out like I imagined it in my mind but due to the shape of the gear housing and just how things played out I couldn't really take advantage of the 150 dollar press I went out and bought.

Anyway, I accidentally drilled too far towards the outside of the case and made 2 small holes which I need to patch up. I'd MIG weld them closed but I believe the housing is aluminum (can anyone clarify?). Luckily the studs' bore is separate from any fluid channels so the holes aren't a big deal other than rusting the stud inside the housing again. Here are some picture for your pleasure.

1fullforce · Mar 1, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

!ouch! , i bet that was a job and a half .

chillin014 · Mar 1, 2009

Re: Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

yep! I feel bad for the gear housing, its all chewed up from my the vice and various tools.

Drive shaft stuck in lower gear housing.

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