Just found out the gash that I'd been documenting since Thurs. in a previous thread, is actually a full fledged hole all way thru. SSChefer you said on our other thread not to weld, because its in a cap area with double rivets. Someone had stuffed JB Weld all way thru hole, and on inside apparently covered with liquid nails. We're first timers and very discouraged. We don't feel qualified to put an aluminum patch on it, can you or anyone offer any more advice? We do have a professional welder that is proposed to be the best around here. Actually have an appt with him in the morning, but after reading on here about the no weld warning, was going to cancel. Should we still just forget the welding idea altogether? I included pics. Thanks for the info.
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
YIKES, that is pretty bad and it is in a horrible spot.
I have welded aluminum for 22 years and fixed similar things, the problem is they almost always use a gasket or seal of some sort and as soon as you weld on that it is over, it contaminates the weld and is really hard to get out you also can't get weld close to the rivets.
I have fixed mine, 20+ years of beaching finally wore through the keel, I welded the inside and then put a keel doubler over the outside but I bolted it with alot of 3M 5200 in between so far it is dry.
I would be tempted to weld a patch plate just slightly larger than the hole on the outside,the keel is the thickest, and you may be able you get it.
I will say though that is bad enough the repair may cost more than the boat and you would be ahead just looking for a new boat, it is a really bad hole in a really bad place.
Here are some pics of mine if they will help you out.
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
I guess you going to need just a bit more marine tex. You really want the marine tex grey putty. http://www.marinetex.com/marinetexepoxyputty.html Read this link and prepare the surface accordingly.
It is repairable.
__________________ "When you see yourself doing something badly and nobody’s bothering to tell you anymore, that’s a very bad place to be. Your critics are your ones telling you they still love you and care." Randy Pausch 1960-2008 The Last Lecture
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
If it is marine tex puttied from both inside and outside it will bond and remain tight. That initial damage is caused by repeated striking of something harder then metal ....like rocks.
__________________ "When you see yourself doing something badly and nobody’s bothering to tell you anymore, that’s a very bad place to be. Your critics are your ones telling you they still love you and care." Randy Pausch 1960-2008 The Last Lecture
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
OK I'll take back the PC 11 but Iboats store doesn't offer marine tex in grey except for 2 oz size, I think we'll need the 14 oz. West Marine has it but its 47.99 not including shipping, know anywhere else cheaper? And what thickness of the stuff do we work with at one time? Like do one layer, let dry then another, alternating between inside and out? Or all in one "ball of wax"? We're thinking after that is set up, we should get an aluminum keel patch fabricated and bolt on with ss screws and 3M 5200. Sound OK? We're into the boat, trailer and good 88 Merc 60 HP for 1500, then we've bought a new battery, and now all these supplies, plus new flooring to buy. The Gluv It should be here by Tuesday. Can't really afford to scrap the boat, we've not been able to locate another aluminum hull similar to ours for any kind of decent price. Probably will find 3 after ours is fixed, but just as long as its fixed. We also still have to paint ours, but not this year. Thanks
I don't know where you are but if you want to buy local .......
You can patch after the repair to cover a wider area but I think building it up will be fine the grey marine tex is rated the highest strength.
__________________ "When you see yourself doing something badly and nobody’s bothering to tell you anymore, that’s a very bad place to be. Your critics are your ones telling you they still love you and care." Randy Pausch 1960-2008 The Last Lecture
Got my grey Marine Tex ordered, will be here tomorrow. I did find the 14 oz size on iBoats. Since our hole is completely thru keel cap, and VTBob had mentioned build up of Marine Tex from outside and inside, we're wondering if we can do the whole thickness at one time, or split it up so its not taking so long to cure? And do we just stuff the hole full until its coming out the top side? With no backing behind it, not sure of proper procedure? And we've found a few more small holes in hull, one right next to a rivet, and one that was patched with some kind of red tipped hardened stick looking patch, it's very hard. Looks like one of the melting sticks you'd use with a torch they've described on here. Can we touch up these places with the Marine Tex and then hit with Gluv It inside and out? (As long as they're cleaned properly first.) Some previous owner had used small globs of JB Weld and Bill got that off with heat gun and scaper. Otherwise we wouldn't have known some of these existed. We're thinking after we patch it with Marine Tex, let that cure, then Gluv It, let that cure, we should put some water in boat again and recheck for leaks. Is that right, or should we check before Gluv It is applied.? I sure hope all this works, my husband is so discouraged, he just wants to scrap it. But I believe it will work, and besides we can't afford to do that, then we'd be boatless for sure. Thanks
HAHAHAHAHAHA MAN I NOT THE EXPERT ON THIS S*** !!! lol Man sorry that stuff just put me a day behind !!!!!! I applied it on mine here Sunday night and it still wasn't hard this moring !!!! *$&$***(#Y* lol
what i did was I didn't add enough hardener ,
So dont do that !!! LOL
Well on my thread I have been talking about it for the last 3 months !!!! yea !!! Its petty much just like mudding dry wall , Give your self 24 hours of drying time before you touch it , and thats when the temp in in the high 60's to low 70's ,
Filling holes it tuff when there not backed it can suck in and some have blowen out on me !!! you will grind and then the hole will appear, and you have to fill again !!! I found that if you lay it on thick don't worry about getting it really smooth and let it set up then grind it down , it turns out really well !!!!!! this will save you from doing it 2 or 3 time !!
As for the set up on thin layers it take a lot longer to set up , when it kicks , it makes it own heat and the thicker you make it the quicker it sets up , but still dint sand it for the 24 hours !!!! on the inside will still be soft !!!
OK , it really is some petty great stuff , And if you just take your time you will never tell you applied it !!! John
Its best to keep all of your questions about this repair in the same thread so people will know what you're talking about and won't get lost, this way people can follow it and give good answers.
That is not a "putty only" repair, it needs to have an aluminum plate secured in place.
The hole is from repeated wear and/or impact in the same spot and while Marine Tex is fairly strong, it won't hold up very long if it gets the same treatment. If this was a small screw hole or something like that and was in a non stress location putty would be OK, but this spot gets the most abuse on a small boat, that's why it failed in the first place.
Your best bet would be to shape a piece of aluminum that will fit on the outside of the hole and either rivet or bolt it in place. Marine Tex or Gluvit can be used to seal the aluminum, but they're not strong enough to trust with your family in the boat out on a lake by themselves.
We got a piece of alum. shaped to fit the keel "cap", so we'll just bolt it on with SS trusshead screws dipped in 5200, and also coating inside of new alum. cap piece with 5200. Then we can feather out some Marine tex on outside of "new" cap and sand it smooth making it look like it belongs, and shoot the paint, (after ZC of course) do we need another primer between ZC and the final coat paint? Oh and about the new threads, I didn't know people would still read the same old topic, if I added a new topic for questions. Thanks everyone
Moderator, can we put all these threads into one reading "Restore?Starcraft 16' alum. large keelhole"? Is that possible? Sorry I didn't know any better to start with. If not I'll just keep posting to the last one?? Thanks
I will merge the topics...... I would not do it all at once but in layers and yes a plate to protect it will help too.
You are doing fine.
__________________ "When you see yourself doing something badly and nobody’s bothering to tell you anymore, that’s a very bad place to be. Your critics are your ones telling you they still love you and care." Randy Pausch 1960-2008 The Last Lecture
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
I agree with ondarvr , you need to cap it with 5200 and the marine tex. You need to get the strength back in the keel. That aluminum expands and contracts with the tempatures and the pounding that hull takes in the water.
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
The bottom paint is a thick black and is in worse shaped than previously thought. There are several patch places like JB Weld, etc around rivets with paint still on them and then the flaky patches down to bare metal. We were just gonna sand the flaked off places and obvious patched places, but now are wondering if some of the rivets covered in thick black paint will seep, if we're gluving the inside should we worry about sanding the paint covered rivets now? We're not painting the bottom at this time. We want to make sure the problems with this hull are fixed before we spend any more time/money on it. So what is the best grit to sand around the flaked patches/bad spots? 100 grit on a DA? Will that sanding be sufficient? We're going to spread marine tex (sanding it smooth) and then gluv it over patched/leaky rivets then hit with ZC and rustoleum hammered black (closest match to whats on it now.) Is that right, or are we missing any sanding steps? Thanks to everyone
Last edited by Old Ticker : April 1st, 2009 at 11:00 AM.
Reason: add a line
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
You might want to do a search in these forums on "bucking rivets" or "rivet replacement" or a few other similar combinations.
Rather than trying to seal leaking rivets,, replacing them is better option and easietr to do than you might have thought.
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
As far as the Tex goes, too thin and it will take longer to cure, too thick and it will overheat itself and not cure properly. Tex is exothermic, so it has to have heat to cure properly. As John has found out, you need to add heat if you are putting it on thin or it takes longer to cure.
My first thoughts on that hole was to get an aluminum bar formed and welded from the inside and then patch welded and ground smooth from the outside.
However, I'm in no position to claim experience with aluminum, nor riveted aluminum and the issues with heat from welding...that was simply my common sense-over engineering reaction to the hole...
What I do know though is that Tex is not the cure for a hole like that. It will expand at a different rate than the aluminum will, cold or hot, and eventually that stress will weaken the bond between the two in a situation like that-so it would be a temporary fix, though it may last a few years....but when will it fail? The middle of the lake? Retrieving the boat onto the trailer? In storage over winter? You'll never know, and not being able to put 1000% trust in your vessel on water is not worth the penny saved yesterday.
Re: Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
Forget the Marine Tex, it will of little value if you're going to use Gluvit on the inside. Just get everything off the outside so you can find all the problem spots.
Aluminum:Big hole all way thru keel cap, Help!
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