Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

So I got additional pictures of the 99 fourwinns H190 I was looking at. I asked the owner to send me pictures of the 350 motor. I couldn't see anything wrong in the pictures. However, there is one concern that somebody brought up in another thread. If you didn't winterize every year, there could be damages to the motor? The owner said he winterized every "other" year because he didn't use it very much. No other maintenance. Boat has about 140hrs after 10 years. This is a one owner. Any other concerns I should look at?

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

ask him if he used the those years he did not winterize, or if the boat just sat winterized. you are the buyer get all the info you want from him. if he ask the question in a couple of different ways, it he is lying he will slip up.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

tashasdaddy said:

ask him if he used the those years he did not winterize, or if the boat just sat winterized. you are the buyer get all the info you want from him. if he ask the question in a couple of different ways, it he is lying he will slip up.

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So if I understand you correctly, the boat has to be winterized every year that it's in use else it has to sit winterize over the entire following year if not used at all?

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

Looking at pictures of the outside of the boat tells us nothing about the condition of the motor. You need to get some pics of the Bilge area. If this is a 10 year old boat, the owner should have stacks of receipts for maintenance and upkeep. A 10 year old boat with 140 hours is not the same as a 10 year old car with low miles. If the boat was only used 14 hours a year on average or maybe 28 hours every other year then the boat has spent a lot of time on the trailer and dry. This is not a good thing as I learned when I purchased my first boat 5 years ago. It was a 8 year old boat and had only 50 hours on it. I ended up replacing just about every gasket, seal, bellows, exhaust joints and anything else rubber because all of these very expensive to replace parts become brittle and dried out with no use. The only reason I mention this is I am trying to help someone else who is new to boating avoid the major pitfalls that I fell into with my first boat. The other thing that you will find is that things like gauges and electrical components will start to fail after 7-9 years of use, the gaskets on gauges dry out and then let water vapor in and before you know it you have a bad gauge. I think Four Winns used a car looking gauge pack that is hard to fix or replace now, on some of their boats so that needs to be carefully looked at as well. Unless you are mechanically inclined, a boat this old is going to be very expensive to maintain unless it has an impeccable record of maintenance.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

You apparently are not understanding what winterizing is and why it is necessary. When the temperature gets below 32 degrees F water freezes. Water that freezes in a container can burst it. In the case of an engine block that wasn't drained the block can crack requiring its replacement. Likewise, a lower unit that has not been serviced (drained of lub and refilled) can have small amounts of water due to leaky seals. If that water freezes you have a cracked lower unit. Engine oil and filter changes are also done on an annual basis (usually in the fall) as part of the winterizing process. Adding a fuel system conditioner like stabil or seafoam and running the engine to ensure the mixture gets into the entire fuel system prevents varnish and crud build up that eventually clogs carburetors. All of this needs to be done regardless how many hours the boat is run during any given year. Once winterized, the boat is essentially set for long term storage. Once you run it again, all of that prevention goes away because the engine is now full of water again. So the next fall it must be winterized again. Obviously all of this is moot if the boat lives in area where it NEVER freezes but the fuel system and engine should still be treated to oil/filter changes.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

That is correct, winterize and leave that way until you are ready to use it for the summer. If your not going to use it leave it winterized. It wouldn't do ANY good to winterize it every other year if you were using it in between. So... winterize don't touch until spring, summerize use for summer, at end of season winterize don't touch till spring and so on. Also that seating layout in a 19' is about the best going in my opinion. Unless its just a couple or two going then the sport seating is fine but for all around practicality cant beat the classic layout. That sure looks to be a pretty well kept boat but as always inspect everything and as stated ask a million questions.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

Thanks silvertips, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

Salmonee,

There is a post here somewhere about buying a used boat. Pretty good guidelines. Some questions I would ask

Has it been garage kept all the time? This would be a big plus.
How well do you know the owner or do you?
I don't know what engine is in it as you say a '350 motor'. If it is a chevy 350 block then its at least 260 hp and in that rig that is a great power package.
Is it EFI or Carb. My guess is its carb but that is fine. EFI is preferable for ease of cranking cold but that's about it.
Get someone that knows boats to go with you on the sea trial. Check the oil and the outdrive lube AFTER the trial.

If the lubes aren't milky, no water in boat, and it runs out ok you're in business.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

The boat its self looks really nice. There is no way to tell if the engine/drive are good without carefully checking it over. I would suggest bringing the boat to a third party authorized Volvo Penta shop and have them give it a good thorough inspection. I would do that at your expense. If they find minor issues see if you can work fixing those into the deal with the seller. If they find major issues walk away. The money spent on the inspection would have been very well spent.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

Buying a boat

1st you need to decide what you want to use it for, fishing, cruising, or water sports.

2nd how many people adults, children you want on board of the average outing.

3rd outboard, inboard-outboard, or inboard power plant.

4th Budget, what you want to pay, and what you are willing to pay, when you find
Exactly what you want.

You can hire a marine surveyor, to inspect the boat, or you can do it yourself.

You are mainly looking for soft spots in the deck, transom, cracks, all signs of a rotten, under frame. You walk all over the deck, that a mallot, or hammer with wooden handle, using handle, tap all over the transom, a shape rap is good solid base, a thud, is questionable base.

The motor should be clean, no spots where the paint is discolored, or pealing from heat, having run hot. (This part for outboard motors Compression should be atleast 100psi, and within 10% of each other,)
Spark on all cylinders, good pee stream, check lower unit for water in oil.

The overall condition of the boat will tell you a lot, as to how it has been maintained.
boat motor combo, A 30 year old may be in better condition, than a 3 year old.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

Nice looking boat. I hope it works out for you at a good price!

Don't try to guess and over-analyze this. Ask the owner to clarify "winterize every other year'. First off, "Winterize" means different things to different folks, so find out just what was done. Oil changes each time? Outdrive lube changed? Lube other fittings? What else? Obviously, the biggie is drain the block, but if that wasn't done the block and/or manifolds will be cracked and you'll find signs of it, hopefully.

Did he do it himself, or have a qualified mechanic do the work?

Unless the seller is a cheat, I'm gonna guess that it wasn't used the years he didn't winterize it - or else he's trying to sell a hull full of problems to someone else!

Also, if it did sit unused a lot, I would be careful and have someone who knows boats have a look at it for potential problems as described by someone else.

Report back what you find out.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

salmonee said:

Any other concerns I should look at?

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Ask him when the last time the bellows were replaced. For a 10 year old boat I would suspect they have been changed at least 2 times. If they have not been changed within the past few years they will need to be replaced. As I understand it, Volvo Penta's have thinner bellows than say a Mercruiser and should be serviced more often. I've never owned or worked on a VP so I can't say for sure. Search or post a question in the Mercruiser / Volvo Penta forum, there are a few guys that are knowledgeable on Volvo Penta and will give you the skinny on what to look for.

Oh yeah,,, and as suggested earlier, if you are not comfortable inspecting the boat, take it in to a service center for an inspection or better yet have a survey done. Might be the best $300 you ever spend on this boat. One of my friends had an inspection done and it was agreed that the seller would pay to have the boat running in perfect condition. The seller paid $800 for routine maintenance that had not been done in years, saved my buddy $800...

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

If you take it to a marine service center, try not to go to one that also sells used boats, they might find faults that aren't there in order to possibly drum up a sale of their own.

Your best bet would be sea trial and take along someone who's more knowledgeable about boats. The not winterizing part would bother me if I knew the boat had been kept in cold climates for winter storage, unless I knew it was kept in a heated building.

I can't say that the last owner should be able to provide receipts, I've done all my own maintenance for years, no boat I ever sold every had any receipts of service being done yet none every lacked for any maintenance.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

tcarden said:

Salmonee,

There is a post here somewhere about buying a used boat. Pretty good guidelines. Some questions I would ask

Has it been garage kept all the time? This would be a big plus.
How well do you know the owner or do you?
I don't know what engine is in it as you say a '350 motor'. If it is a chevy 350 block then its at least 260 hp and in that rig that is a great power package.
Is it EFI or Carb. My guess is its carb but that is fine. EFI is preferable for ease of cranking cold but that's about it.
Get someone that knows boats to go with you on the sea trial. Check the oil and the outdrive lube AFTER the trial.

If the lubes aren't milky, no water in boat, and it runs out ok you're in business.

Click to expand...

I read the "sticky" at the top, but will try to find more info on the I/O subject. From what I understand the boat is kept in a garage but I'll be sure to ask whether it was "always" kept in the garage. The ad says it was a chevy 350 but I just got some pictures last night which shows a 5.0GL. Not sure. I'll check the EFI/carb issue. I don't know anyone that owns boat so I'm going solo on this a hiring a surveyor. I'm not sure what you mean by checking the oil and outdrive lube after the trial run? I'm mechanically ignorant if you haven't already notice. Please explain in finer details?

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

"I'm mechanically ignorant if you haven't already notice." all the more reason for a survey. it looks like a really clean hardly used motor. 5.0 on that boat, especially with the VP drive, is an excellent package. i actually believe the 5.0 is a stronger motor.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

Is the surveyor going with on the sea trial? If so he would check oil/drive lube/etc. However you are paying him so have him show you how to check all of the fluids. You check these before and after the sea run, that way you can tell if water is getting into something it shouldn't. Water in any type of lube will emulsify(sp) thus turning it lighter/frothy, either case engine or drive that is a BAD sign and one to run from. Again you are paying for that service so don't be afraid to ask him(surveyor) a million questions and have him show you anything you have questions about. How to start cold? how the trim works? best way to operate(rpm range) best way to launch/retrieve? how to properly use guages to warn of problems, etc. Lastly a chevy 350 is a 5.7l a 302 is the 5.0l don't know how the ad got messed up..

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

5.0L is a 305 cid. However, the 350 cid (5.7L is a direct bolt in.

The lower unit lube is easy enough to check. Go to the I/O section and look at the "adults only" area. There you can download the appropriate manual for that package. Thanks to Don S.

That will tell you EXCATLY how to check items on that engine/drive package.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

That is a VP 5.0L 305 motor with a 2 barrel carb. makes around 180HP in that configuration. If the carb has been upgraded to a 4 barrel then it may be more like 200HP. It looks like nothing has been modified so it is probably still the 2 barrel set up. The other thing that is very noticeable to me is the motor access. Eventually you will have to work on that motor, I would take a hard look at how easy it is to get to the entire motor. If it is covered in screwed in panels or back under the sunpad it is going to be a bear for someone to work on and they do charge more for that hassle factor. Looks to be in really nice shape though, but the truth lies in the condition of the rubber components as well as the compression of the motor. Electrics like a starter or alternator can be changed out fairly easy but an oil leak anywhere on the bottom side of that motor is not fun. Trust me, you do not want an oil leak in a boat. Oil goes everywhere as all drains lead to the bilge. A good surveyor should be able to inspect all seals and bellows for you though.

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

Thanks everyone for all the replies. One more question, where do I look for the surveyor?

Re: Frustrated, help newbie review these boat pictures

we don't know where you are, so this is as close as i can get you. http://www.marinesurvey.org/index2.html