TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

jukes23 · Jan 11, 2009

Had a great day on the water today until I was taking the boat out of the water. Was tilting the motor up and it was about 90% up (just to the safety lock) when it stopped. I checked the main ram and the housing was all oily. I got home washed all of the oil off, unscrewed the oil filler plug and air hissed. The TnT then worked...barely but at least long enough to notice that the main piston (the one connected to the engine) was leaking through the dust cover. I figured I need to replace the seals. Can somebody provide me a quick walkthrough?

gcboat · Jan 11, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

I would first check the cylinder itself. If there is any pitting or other blemishes in it then replacing the seals will do no good - it will just leak out again.
It would be a wise decision on your behalf if in doubt to take it to an authorized repair shop and let them make that call. I know - it will be mega bucks but you should be able to sleep better knowing it will be done once and for all.
If you decide to try and tackle this yourself you'll need to buy a special spanner wrench to remove the piston tops and then the seal kits. Just guessing about $3.00 to $4.00 per seal, maybe three seals in the kit so the initial investment isn't astronomical - but will you be able to do the job?
I'd certainly hate for it to crap out again and then have to take it to the shop.
Such a PITA.

jukes23 · Jan 11, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

Can the blemishes be buffed out or re-surfaced? Does the piston ram (that is what I am calling it) typically get replaced if its bad? If so, when you say "megabucks" how much does that mean?

jukes23 · Jan 16, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

no blemishes as far as I can tell. Since I am going in there, can somebody tell me what parts (piston, o-rings, etc) I need to order? Should I replace all of the guts or just the o-rings. Also, does yamaha make a special spanner wrench to remove the caps?

jukes23 · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

Anybody?

rodbolt · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

K&L tools makes the spanner for yamaha.
its avalible from any yamaha dealer.
simply remove the tilt ram. depending on splashwell desighn this may be accomplised without removing the tilt unit.
carefully remove the nut,and valve assy. then the cap, replace all seals,orings and backup rings on both the tilt shock valve/piston and the cap.
try to fill the tilt cylinder before reinstalling the assy.
torque the cap to proper spec and start cycling the system to bleed it.
always check/fill the resevoir with all 3 pistons at the full up position.
no "kits" avalible from yamaha,or anyone else, but all seals and soft parts are avalible.
if the tilt ram is defectiveie scuffed,scared or pitted it has to be replaced and is close to 300 dollars but still cheaper than the unit.

jukes23 · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

Thanks Rodbolt, that puts it into perspective. A couple quick questions

1. Is the tilt ram under pressure? Removing the cap wont send the ram flying will it?
2. Parts needed will include: Dust seal, O-Ring (4 different ones) and backup ring. Do I need to replace the piston as well (part#6E5-43814-02-00)?
3. how much fluid do I put in it (do I fill the cylinder 1/2 way). is there a procedure for bleeding it and/or adding fluid via the resorvoir nipple?

Thanks for the help,

Joe

rodbolt · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

no real pressure, once the cap is lossened and the tilt pin removed have an assistant carefully keep tilting the motor by the skeg.
remove the cap and remove the tilt ram. fill it as much as you can and still get the tilt ram cap back on. this unit self bleeds with cycling but its difficult and doesnt like it.
occasionally I have to loosen the manual release screw, drop the unit,raise it by the skeg,top it off and repeat.
if you open the resevoir cap without all pistons up it may acceterate in your hand and make a mess.
always keep the tilt locks in place and keep the skeg supported when dealing with this unit. sudden loss of pressure may allow the engine to fall rapidly seperating digits from hands.

jukes23 · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

ok that helps clarify it. do I need to replace the piston as a precautionary measure? Also, I was looking at the schematic and cant see what keeps the piston attached.
I am assuming that once the ram is detached from the motor and the cap is loosened, the whole assembly slides out pretty easy. is there a pin or nut at the end by the piston that holds it together?
By all pistons up, you mean, the engine tilted all the way up, yes?

jukes23 · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

went to the dealer to order the parts, starting with the wrench. They said it would be 300 bucks for the wrench alone!! That didnt sound right at all. I found it here on boat.net for just under 100. Then they suggested I talk to the service guy. He pulled the manual and it said 4 hours to do this. That sounds like an extremely long time. I told him I could remove the unit and bring it down (its basically 2 bolts and remove a pin on the motor) and he said probably 3. Honestly, I cant see this taking more than an hour.. am I wrong here? I dont mind using a mechanic, but I feel like this is an extremely large amount of time to do something pretty basic.

rodbolt · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

4 hours to change a tilt ram seal?
I can remove the unit,dissasemble it and reseal all three rams,clean the pump and reasemble it and hve it installed in 3 hours as long as I dont have to drill out the trim motor mounting bolts. even then it only adds another hour to drill and tap them soft screws.
its not like your trouble shooting a problem your simply going to replace the cap seals and the piston orings and the back up ring. if splashwell clearence will allow you dont have to remove the unit just the ram.

jukes23 · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

Well, its leaking through the dust seal, fluid pumps out of the top when tilting the motor. Once the tool comes in (I ordered it through Boats.net just now), I will pull the ram. I was reading through the shop manual and it says to leave it fully extended. when removing it. I probably have the clearance to remove the ram, IF I dissconnect the ram from the engine and collapse it into the cyclinder.
Is that ok? From the shop manual, its seems pretty straightforward to fix. The service tech at the marina said something about replacing the top cap of the ram and that is the standard fix for this. Yamaha doesnt sell the cap seperately and he said "we can use the cap from an envinrude tilt and trim since they are made by the same company". That is probably true, but is "replacing the cap" standard procedure? If it was, I would assume Yamaha would have a part number for it, not force you to buy the whole assembly.

rodbolt · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

like I say, if you have the well and steering cable clearence once the upper tilt ram pin removed have an assistant grab the skeg and further lift the lower, most times it gives enough clearence to remove the ram.
attepmt to remove the can with the ram retracted and at best your gonna get fluid soaked and at worst, well hopefully just some blood blisters on a finger.
yes the cap and most other parts are the same, fastrac, some yamaha,some suzuki and some mercs all used the Showa unit.
the cap is avalible from Yamaha and unless the cap is damaged why replace it, simply replace the wiper and the piston oring and the cap oring.
next time you talk with that tech ask him who his instructor was at the drive train school in Kennesaw GA.
actually sounds like another scared tech that will also say you cannot rebuild lower units and powerheads.

jukes23 · Jan 17, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

Ok, I got you now. Once I disengage the pin that connects the ram to the motor, push the skeg higher (as long as I have clearance on the cables..what is the well?) so the ram simply can pull out. Once I have it pulled, lower the motor back down onto the motor locks I assume and support the skeg.

Pretty straight forward.

Hopefully should get the stuff from boats.net next week sometime. the Yamaha wrench I ordered is YB-06175-2B. Would have been nice to see a picture of it

Thanks for the help Rodbolt!

rodbolt · Jan 19, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

now that ya got what I said first I am gonna toss a curve and some info 99% of yamaha techs dont know.
the reason why I am telling you to refill the tilt cylinder was a trick question.
I was waiting to see if some of the other Techs posting would catch it.

what I am telling you now is after the tilt ram is removed siphon,pump,soak up with lint free towls but drain the tilt cylinder and inspect the bore, this setup doesnt pressurize the top side of the piston, its also why they can be so hard to bleed.
most always the reason the wiper seal is leaking is because the trim piston oring is leaking.

jukes23 · Jan 19, 2009

Re: TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

so siphon out all of the fluid from the tilt cylinder. ok. How do I fill it back up then? Do I break open the trim rams and fill them? That is what the manual shows at least. If you dont crack them open, what is the alternative?

by trim piston o-ring, do you mean one of the two trim rams or one of the o-rings on the tilt ram? just to be safe, I am going to replace all of the o-rings on the tilt ram.

TNT leaking on 2002 115 2 stroke

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