Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

packman35

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
113
What does everyone think about this for my first boat?

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1993-FOUR-WINNS-180-Freedom-94162953

It fits my limited budget and size (garage) requirements. Any pros/cons or things to watch out for?

The dealer is doing a compression check and leak test for me as well as rechecking the floor, etc. I am four hours away from him so I wanted to get as much info as possible before making a trip to check it out.

Thanks in advance!!!!
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Looks nice. Upholstery work is that hard or too awfully expensive.

As long as the floor and transom are solid, go for it.

Since it is a dealer, see the engine run before you lay your cash down. And by all means get those compression numbers.

Four Winns is a good boat with a good reputation.
 

Windykid

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
1,177
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

As long as everything else goes well, its probably a perfect beginner boat.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

The upholstry is pretty bad. It looks moldy, dirty and seams are ripped, which is from rotted stitching. Upholstry gets that way from sitting exposed to sun and rain. That along with the broken ski locker door (listed in the ad) is a real warning sign that the floor and possably stringers and transom are probably in early or advance stages of rot.

Bring a cordless drill (smaller the better) and a 1/4" drill bit with masking tape wrapped around it about an inch from the tip as a depth marker. Drill into the inside of the transom as low as you can and inspect the wood shavings. If wet and dark, I would pass on the boat because that is advanced stages of rot. Do the same in the ski locker, drill into the stringers on each side, both low and high.

If the dealer has a problem with you drilling holes, then have a screw driver and an awl or ice pick as backup. Look for screws on the outside of the transom you can remove as a mini inspection port. Look for water leaking out, stick the awl in the screw hole and see how soft the wood is. Look for rust or tannin stains around the outboard mounting bolts. Look for sealer or the lack of sealer around the outboard mounting bolts. Probe the transom from the inside with the awl and look for soft wood.

Also pull up the carpet where possable and check the floor. Is it glass covered or bare wood? Does it show water damage? Are the seats solid or do the bases rock?

BTW, upholstry is expensive. If you can do it yourself, then it is much cheaper, but you will still be paying $8 and up for marine grade vinyl, and its heavy so shipping is costly.

Another thing is the gear case has a lot of paint scratched/worn off. Looks odd to me, never saw one like that before. But then again I boat in salt water and don't usually run the gear case into the ground or other objects. My skeg shows wear, but not the gear case.

Seeing as this is a dealer, be sure to take it out for a test drive!!!

Don't let the excitement of getting a boat trick you into buying a project boat if you don't want a project.

I would keep looking for a boat that was garage kept. That one does not look garage kept.
 

BigJ08

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
308
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Looks good. Four Winns are normally pretty good boats. Can't say it enough times, DON'T TRUST THE DEALER WHEN HE SAYS "YEAH, THE FLOOR AND TRANSOM ARE SOLID". Unless he is a marine surveyor or has had one do an inspection, get in the boat and CHECK FOR YOURSELF. Those compression numbers should all be over 100. If you're driving four hours to look at it, I would also make sure the dealer can take you out for a spin in it. Other than that just use your noggin, as the old saying goes "if it sounds to good to be true it probably is." ;) Hope is works out for you, love the lines of the boat. Good luck.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,758
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Buying a boat with issues just because it fits your budget and your garage is not necessarily a good choice. From what I can see, I would almost guarantee this boat has stringer and floor issues as a minimum. The brown stains at the back where the seat meets the floor is one tip off. Loose carpet on the ski locker cover is another tipoff. Also be aware that compression numbers mean nothing unless you actually observe the test. I doubt this boat has been touched since it was traded so take an assortment of tools, including a large flat blade screwdriver. Using that screwdriver, remove the lower unit drain screw and see if water comes out first. If it does, the lower unit needs work. If you are capable of upholstery work yourself, you don't have to order vinyl on line. Any of the fabric stores in larger cities has it and you can often get very good deals on the more common colors. If you can't do that work, most of the upholstery shops can repair split seams, provided the material has not become so hard it can no longer be stretched and stitched. Otherwise, you are the surveyor here. You need to check this unit from top to bottom and inside out. Paying a little more for a boat in better physical condition, or paying the same for a lesser boat in better condition is a wiser choice when working on a budget. Owning a boat is not an inexpensive passtime. Why start out with problems. The inspection doesn't end with the boat either. Check the trailer thoroughly as well. Do the the lights work, are the tires correct and in good shape, is the frame rusty, are there any broken or corroded welds at cross members and spring hangers, the axle. All of this stuff may seem insignificant but to have it repaired is very expensive.
 

krakatoa

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
705
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

I dont know but that price look a little funnny to me. Iis possible that you`re thinnking in spend a few bucks regarding the upholstery and other parts of the boats to get it up to date, at the end you could spend over 2K in reparing so we talking about over 5k final price. Im pretty sure that you can get a better boat for 5k, just asking for water.

Hope this helps.;)
 

Dave K.

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
437
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Boats that have substantial upholstry problems usually tells me they have been left uncovered or at the least, not taken care of. although budget & size are good areas to start, what is the objective for buying a boat? in other words, what do you want to do? EX: fish, ski, liesure, family (kids that is) all of the above & so on. That's what was told me when I started looking. BTW: & not to discourage you...I looked for 6 months & seriously looked at a good half dozen before I bought one.
The interior looks a little roughed-up for me, unless you want to purchase a project right off the bat. Look around a little more. Times we are in, $2500.00 can get you a good first boat. I paid $2800.00 3yrs ago & looking forward to next season w/ the same boat!
 

packman35

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
113
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Thanks for all the replies!!

I agree that there are a few flags with this boat and definitely a project or two with it. That being said, I don't mind a few projects (upholstery, etc) provided the main structure and engine are good. I plan on doing all the repairs/maintenance myself - I just don't want to start out with a major repair job. Most of the boats of this era (and in particular the Four Winns models) seem to have the torn stitching. Perhaps a problem with those model years. In any case, I don't mind doing the upholstery. I plan on doing it myself. I can be pretty handy:D

I recently bought a used travel trailer that had a good 50% of the floor rotted out. Now talk about a project!!! Was barely safe to walk on, let alone camp in. I tore it all out and replaced it and it now looks better than new (stronger too).

Waiting to hear from the dealer. I'll post back what he tells me.

Thanks again!!
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

the lower unit looks like the boat has been Beached alot, Leesville is in the midlle of SC, between Columbia and Augusta, Lake country.
the condition of the upholstery saw it has spent a lot of time in the sun. if all checks out, i say negotiate the price, considerably. the dealer want this stuff out of their inventory.
 

INJUN

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
358
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Just from looking at the photos, I'd get it. But please heed the sugeestions replied to the thread. The dealer may not want you to explore into the fglass.
If all looks okay, you still have a 4 hour return trip. Inspect the trailer thorougly and prepare for anything that could happen on the return trip. You can see other threads on that subject.
Safety first!
 

packman35

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
113
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Just found this in the 1993 Four Winns catalog:

"Four Winns boats are built on a solid foundation... a 100% Fiberglass Encapsulated Interlocking Five Stringer System......"[/B][/B]

That sounds good insofar as rot to the stringers right? Or could that still be an issue?
 

packman35

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
113
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

Just heard back from the dealer.

Everything naturally checked out OK.

Compression readings were 85/85/80/75, which he says is in spec for that engine according to his mechanic. I think they are a little low but what do I know. I thought >100 was the goal. I will have to research that. 1993 Evinrude 115 HP.

He also said they changed the gear lube because it was "a little burnt" but that wasn't really abnormal. That too sounds strange.

Floor and transom are good - FWIW coming from the dealer.

Any thoughts?
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

repiled it Evinrude forum, get in the boat, walk all over, feeling for soft spots in the deck. take a rubber malott or the rubber handle of a hammer, rap all over the transom, a rap back sound is solid, a thud or thump (dead sound) is possible rot, or hollow space.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,174
Re: Possible 1st Boat - Looking for opinions

That 75psi cylinder might be just about in spec but its still rather low.
Not a good deal for me.
 
Top