vortec valve size

86liberator

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Hello everyone, first post here but have been reading a lot of the older posts. Here is my situation, I have an 86 211 liberator with a 350 alpha with a cracked block. I think I am going to go with a remanufactured 350 vortec longblock. I was talking to a guy in Oregon who will custom build me a long block for a very reasonable price. It will have a roller cam. He said going to a 1.60 exhaust valve is a good idea on these heads, any input? I am looking for aprox. 320-330 horse as I know I will be pushing the limits of the alpha one. Anything else I should have done? Is about 9.5-1 compression what I should be shooting for? Thanks for the help, hope to have the boat back on the water by spring.

sam
 

chiefalen

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Re: vortec valve size

He build marine engines ?

What sorta oil pump he giving you ?

Did you put any money aside for a new out drive ?
 

Bondo

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Re: vortec valve size

Ayuh,...

Vortec heads, Right out of the box are More than adequate to do what you're looking for...
I rather doubt the pay-back would be worth the Expence to enlarge the exhaust valves,+ seats .010....

Just make sure your engine builder knows that you need the Peak power to be at 4800rpms...

You'll also have to deal with the differences in the Flywheels....
 

Big Boat Bay Buster

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Re: vortec valve size

Ayuh,...

Vortec heads, Right out of the box are More than adequate to do what you're looking for...
I rather doubt the pay-back would be worth the Expence to enlarge the exhaust valves,+ seats .010....

Just make sure your engine builder knows that you need the Peak power to be at 4800rpms...

You'll also have to deal with the differences in the Flywheels....


I second the motion for Vortex heads. You can get a NEW, aftermarket set for a resonable price. If you are looking for more power, consider a stroker moter, 383 CID.
The xtra cubes will put the added horsepower below 4800 RPM's.;)
A roller cam is not a must. You can avoid the flywheel issue and go with a pre 87 block and use a nice marine cam. Just use oil thats good for older motors or use an additive. I have an 87 210 Horizon which is the same hull as the 211 Lib. I rebuilt my 350 stock, to keep it simple. In stock form we are already doin 50 MPH! :)
Chris
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2488&sid=ca0ba6126e4256e868bfe727f72424ad
 

86liberator

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Messages
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Re: vortec valve size

Yes he does build marine engines. The place is called superior engines, anybody heard of them? I will probably just keep the vortecs stock then. I thought about a 383 but would then for sure need a new outdrive and don't have the money for one right now. What is the best oil pump to use? I am still going with the roller cam just as added insurance against todays crappy oil. thanks
 

chiefalen

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3,598
Re: vortec valve size

If your using a stock pan you do not want a high volume oil pump, will suck dry the pan. And will also wear your dissy out. The gear will go and you may never know why your replacing them.

But i know the fix. Even with a high volume oil pump.

Thats why i asked if they do marine engines.

Street engines are different. And use the power curve differently.

Need the correct cam.

Need brass plugs also.
 

Bondo

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Re: vortec valve size

What is the best oil pump to use?

Ayuh,.... The Stock Chevy oil pump is More than adequate,...

For some of the reasons mentioned by Chief,...
Anymore than Stock is a Waste of money,+ can cause potential Issues....

SBCs have always been well known for their Superior oiling systems....
Modifications are Not needed in the Marine applications We see here.......


'Course,.....
If you're building an SBC powered Off-Shore Racer,....

You might want to consider a Dry-Sumped Block........;)
 

chiefalen

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Re: vortec valve size

Bond-o as usual is correct.

May i add a point here that i treid to make in my first post, to this thread.

You are going to be at the absolute limit in terms of hp that your drive will handle.

The one you have now is what i refer to.

Thats why i asked if you put money aside for a new one.

Maybe if you don't hole shot it, maybe you will make it last i dunno.

Wish you luck, and the gears hold up.
 

HT32BSX115

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Dec 8, 2005
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10,083
Re: vortec valve size

It may still be a little slow out of the hole even if you don't break it by "hole shot-ing" it!

The low end of any small block is not going to be as good as a big block. Mine was slow out of the hole with the 460 even when it was new!! (But it ain't now!!;) )
 

SuperNova

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Re: vortec valve size

.

You are going to be at the absolute limit in terms of hp that your drive will handle.

The one you have now is what i refer to.

Thats why i asked if you put money aside for a new one.

Maybe if you don't hole shot it, maybe you will make it last i dunno.

Wish you luck, and the gears hold up.

Survey says...............I don't really know how I can represent the sound that is made when the contestant guesses wrong.


Anyway, I've already put an Aluminum headed 355 high performance engine in front of an '86 alpha. Engine dynoed at 416 hp at 5200 rpm. I ran 4 blade S/S props ranging from 21" pitch to 26" pitch. They were mercury "Bravo II" props. The boat was an '86 Wellcraft 197 Elan. NEVER blew the outdrive. The guy I sold it to is a friend of mine and he still runs it set up the same. In Fact, at one point I used an automotive drag engine that peaked at 7000 rpm in front of that Alpha, and I spun it up and never hurt that drive. Take it for what it is; one man's experience.
 

stinger222

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 5, 2007
Messages
129
Re: vortec valve size

The Alpha drive will easily hold up behind your motor, even a built 383. I had a 406 SB which gave out after 10 seasons, but the outdrive is still going strong. Don't let the other posts scare you, as long as you don't slam the throttle out of the hole all the time, the drive will hold up 300-400hp range.
 

86liberator

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Messages
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Re: vortec valve size

Thans for the info, maybe I will go with the 383 after all and put the 1.50 heavy duty gears in. Right now it has a 21 pitch stainless and jumped right out of the whole. I'm sure I will have to go to at least a 23 pitch, on the other hand how does going to the 1.50 ratio affect the rpm's? thanks
 

Bondo

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Re: vortec valve size

86 211 liberator with a 350 alpha with
and put the 1.50 heavy duty gears in.

Ayuh,... That's what you've got Now....

The 1.32:1s are NLA....

Survey says...............I don't really know how I can represent the sound that is made when the contestant guesses wrong.

Anyway, I've already put an Aluminum headed 355 high performance engine in front of an '86 alpha. Engine dynoed at 416 hp at 5200 rpm. I ran 4 blade S/S props ranging from 21" pitch to 26" pitch. They were mercury "Bravo II" props. The boat was an '86 Wellcraft 197 Elan. NEVER blew the outdrive.

Ayuh,... I wish I knew how to type that Noise too....

There's just No Way in 'ell a prop for a Bravo II,... Or a Bravo III, will bolt onto an Alpha....
Any Alpha....

Bravo I props do interchange with the Alphas,+ the large gearcase outboards...;)
 

180shabah

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Re: vortec valve size

Have you ever driven this boat with the stock 260(230ish at the prop)? How did you come to the 320-330hp figure? Is there a speed you are tryng to achieve, or is this just a number that sounds good.

A "stock" vortec with a 4bbl will make about 320hp at the crank(290ish at the prop) and will be dead reliable for years to come. This will probably push that boat in the 60mph neighborhood.
 

180shabah

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Re: vortec valve size

Chief - I looked at that diesel jet boat, the really amazing part was that it already has 8 bids. Automatic transmission, radiator, dry exhaust, all surrounded by a boat that pretty much a shell only WOW
 

Maclin

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May 27, 2007
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Re: vortec valve size

I am with 180shabah on this, a stock Vortec will do what you are looking for with no muss no fuss, and no gear changes just prop pitch tuning.

I also looked at that ebay boat chief linked in there, that thing is a Frankenstein monster, surprised the villagers have not showed up and burned it down to the keel!
 

Maclin

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Re: vortec valve size

I thought I may need to be clearer about what I was thinking about on this, that using the Vortec heads on the same year block you have will give about 30 ponies over the previous style heads. Like Bond-o said the rest of it is simpler when you stay with the same vintage block.

I think a 9.1 or so compression with those heads works well. I do know the SBC hot-rodders I knew back in the early 90's were bolting on the newer style heads and gaining 30-40 HP and 2 or 3 tenths and more in the 1/4 mile with no other changes.
 

HT32BSX115

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Messages
10,083
Re: vortec valve size

Have you ever driven this boat with the stock 260(230ish at the prop)? How did you come to the 320-330hp figure? Is there a speed you are tryng to achieve, or is this just a number that sounds good.

A "stock" vortec with a 4bbl will make about 320hp at the crank(290ish at the prop) and will be dead reliable for years to come. This will probably push that boat in the 60mph neighborhood.


I'm not sure that Liberator will gain all that much performance with a 320 crankshaft HP engine. It's a pretty heavy boat.

Mine did barely 60 with the (slightly) tricked 460 King Cobra (1.43:1 & 20p stainless) at 5000 rpm ...200 rpm over OMC's rated rpm........this was when the boat was new..... AND OMC claimed the engine did 340HP at the crank.

I thought it was somewhat slow out of the hole though. Once on plane it wasn't that bad I guess.

Even Mercruisers' EFI 6.2L (383?) is only rated at 320 prop hp...... and rated to run on 87 octane regular fuel.

Most of the (non-marine) machine shops that claim high HP values usually don't build engines that will do it at the RPM that most stern drives want to turn, they're carbureted AND you're probably not going to be able to run it on 87 octane gas. (a lot of lakes don't have higher octane gas so you'd have to haul it in)


When I went looking for a replacement engine and drive I considered a rather late model (2004) 5.7L MPI 300hp engine and (Bravo I) drive. I was worried that it would be slower out of the hole since it would have had less torque than the 460 King Cobra. The advantage might have been the fact that the Mercruiser 5.7/Bravo I would have been maybe 200lbs lighter. I don't think that would have made a big difference.

The only engine I would replace my current 454 with is a 502!








Cheers, Rick
 

chiefalen

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3,598
Re: vortec valve size

Shabah crazy isn't it, that guy got to mush time on his hands. Wonder how long that setup lasts, won't make it out a mile maybe when they open it up.

Stock is the way to go here, if you think your gonna go more than 60 with that hull your wrong.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
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