Riser studs

M

mstng

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I have 2 studs that install to the riser and two bolts for the other 2 holes. I have read on this forum where these should go in easy but I am having to put a good amount of torque to get these seated. The manifold studs go in easy and are finger tight. But these require a nut and wrench.

I took the old studs out of the old riser to compare and they are the same size bolts and the same size manifold threads. They also appear to have not been easy to install and required a bit of force to place originally.

What is the likelihood of cracking this manifold if I continue torquing these studs (they must go down to the un-threaded center area). I am afraid to go further until hearing from you guys. Another option is to back these studs out (half way in) and just use 4 bolts instead of two and do away with studs. The bolts go on pretty easy.

Again, it looks like these studs were also not easily placed in the original manifold either. Is this normal?
 
M

mstng

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Re: Riser studs

If you are implying that it is normal to have to do this, that I didn't realize on a new manifold.

Maybe you could also tell me why the bolts that go in the opposite 2 holes do not require any prep. They are noticeably smaller than the 2 studs yet the holes are the same......

4 identical holes. 2 bolts and 2 studs of different diameters.
 
C

captmello

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Re: Riser studs

Doesn't look to tough. Mostly bolts and nuts etc.
Click to expand...

When I blurted out that line I never mentioned stud replacement!;)

Like the guys said clean out the holes with the tap and vac.

2 bolts and 2 studs of different diameters.
Click to expand...

hard to say, do they match the originals in size?

I'll bet if the studs only go in, for example,5/8 inch instead of 3/4 inch it won't matter one bit as long as you can properly torque down the riser. I'd add a washer under your nut if all else failed. You don't want to ruin your new parts. It doesn't need to be super tight!
 
ziggy

ziggy

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Re: Riser studs

i'm having trouble with the question...

what are ya working on....

if i remember right when i R&Red my riser, the studs i had had different screw threads on one end, one was fine, one was coarse... can't remember if the dia. was different... it may have been, but i just used the proper end of the stud...

i don't understand,
They also appear to have not been easy to install and required a bit of force to place originally.
Click to expand...
what are 'they'? and how can 'they appear' to not be easy to install?

a pic maybe?

tell us the size of the bolts, and studs, and screw thread size of ea? describe exactly what 'they' are. ie. a stud that's 2'' long, a half inch length of screw theads on ea. end, 1/4-20 on one side, 1/4-28 on the other, whatever 'they' are includeing what size and screw thread pitch of the female side too.

a bolt that is to big for a screw hole is just that....

not on your particular situation. but i've had new parts that i needed to chase the screw threads with a tap before... specially if the parts are aftermarket chineeze...
 
M

mstng

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Re: Riser studs

I am not doing a good job explaining the situation..I know.

Pictures to come momentarily.

I suppose the simple question is are these 2 new studs the correct size for this new manifold?

They appear identical to the old ones that I took off the old manifold just for comparison purposes. The new manifold and old manifold also appear to have identical thread holes.
 
M

mstng

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Re: Riser studs

http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4135bc2.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4137hc5.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4136hs9.jpg
http://my.imageshack.us/v_images.php

2 pics of the new manifold with studs partially installed also showing an old stud that was removed from the old manifold. The studs are the same size. Also depicted are 2 of 4 bolts I will use in the place of studs.

1 pic of the old manifold and old stud. Reinstalling the old stud into the old manifold is excessively difficult. I can't see how this stud was originally placed without using a significant amount of torque. I only tried this to see how difficult I could expect the new studs to be to install in the new manifold.

Regardless, can I simply remove these new studs and use the 2 old bolts and the 2 new bolts?. Does that seem to be the safest thing? Are the only purpose of studs to allow easier holding of the riser in place for install?

I still can't understand how the studs were originally installed without a wrench and significant force.

I hope this is a bit clearer. Thanks for your time and patience folks..
 
ziggy

ziggy

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Re: Riser studs

are you using two nuts jambed together to help install the studs? so you can put a wrench on it.....
 
M

mstng

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Re: Riser studs

ziggy said:
are you using two nuts jambed together to help install the studs? so you can put a wrench on it.....
Click to expand...

Yes, that's how I got them 1/3 of the way. I was of the understanding that these should go in much easier. It's hard to explain how much torque I am using but it is more than simply turning the wrench, but I am not 2 handing it. It is enough for me with my limited knowledge regarding the strength of the manifolds that I worry about cracking it. Maybe I am worrying unnecessarily and that a small bit of force is required to get these studs in....

Thanks for the reply
 
C

captmello

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Re: Riser studs

From the photos the bolts and studs look about the same diameter with the courser end of the stud matching the bolt. Does the bolt go into the holes better/deeper than the stud? Bolt sizes aren't that close, should either fit or not. Did you clean the holes with a tap?

Regardless, can I simply remove these new studs and use the 2 old bolts and the 2 new bolts?. Does that seem to be the safest thing?
Click to expand...

I would generally try to put it together the "factory way". However I bet it's been done. It has to be your call.

If the studs go in half way the threads are most likely correct.

The factory may have added locktight or something during assembly, who knows.
 
chiefalen

chiefalen

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Re: Riser studs

You do know they are rough cast the manifold's need to be chased with a tap and vacuumed out.

What brand of manifold you get?

And yes there is a real threat to pulling the hole or cracking the manifold.

And there is a specific torque for each bolt.

Those torques specs are in the manual.

Bye the way what sorta motor is this?
 
Rocky_Road

Rocky_Road

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Re: Riser studs

Personally, I would 'chase' the new holes with the proper bottoming tap (a must on a blind hole)...vac out the results...use a little anti-seize on the studs...and try again!

But, then again, I am anal about duplicating the original factory setup on my setup....
 
chiefalen

chiefalen

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Re: Riser studs

I learned the hard way, never over torque cost me a motor and the whole summer.
 
ziggy

ziggy

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Re: Riser studs

I learned the hard way, never over torque
Click to expand...
yep, i've learned that too... use a torque wrench....

think i'd chase the screw threads with a tap too...
 
M

mstng

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Re: Riser studs

Went ahead and tapped and it went smoothly. I had heard that they were supposed to be "finger tight". This was in no way finger tight and I was fearful of cracking the manifold. I know it's hard to describe, maybe I should have used a torque wrench for the studs to show how much resistance there was. More than I thought was needed but obviously not too much.

The manifold is about ready to go on....

Thanks guys.....

Volvo 3.0 glpb 2003
 
H

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Riser studs

I recently replaced a Mercruiser 3.0 in a friends boat and if I remember correctly the riser/elbow was only held on with 2 bolts and the was only around 25-30 FT-lbs....so you can see that it doesn't take much clamping force to seal it.....

I would expect the Volvo to be similar. Make sure that you follow the service manual torque instructions and you'll be fine.


Regards,


Rick
 
M

mstng

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Messages
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Re: Riser studs

Riser soon to go on after hearing from you guys. I suspect this is one of the newer volvo gaskets and should go on the riser dry. I have 2 gaskets and a restrictive plate. If you would please take a look and advise. The ones I removed showed a metallic sheen and didn't appear to have any sealant. The reason I ask is I have the workshop manual and it states to apply sealing compound to both sides of the 2 new gaskets. Is there something that supersedes the manual?.

http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4150ph5.jpg

Manifold went on dry yesterday and torqued to specs.

Big day today Captmello...Wish me luck.
 
C

captmello

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Re: Riser studs

I can't see how adding sealant could hurt as long as it isn't restricting any of the passages.

I'm sending out half of my share of luck for the day to you, as sometimes a little luck does help.:)
 
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