Buying a used boat without a water test? Fair?

cube21 · #1 January 30th, 2009, 06:36 PM

We found a pretty good deal on a couple year old boat, no hour meter but looks gorgeous.
Went and looked at it, loved it, looks like what we need, and we are ready to buy. It was a repo and now belongs to Diversified Remarketing, a pretty big company here in phoenix that sells all kinds of repossessed toys.

He says before selling, they run through every nook and crany of every boat, replacing bearings, fixing anything damaged, and inspecting every corner. He says they do this to "cover their own a**, because they dont know the history of these boats." The boat looks great, very clean, no problems that we noticed, and a more than fair price.
The seller, DR, will not allow us to do a lake test. Apparently, his company is "just to busy to be running around allowing every interested buyer to test the boats". He promises everything will work 100%, and will even come to the lake with us for a few hours, AFTER we purchase it, to make sure we are satisfied. If their is any problems, they will be fixed until we are fully satisfied, but he says "there wont be". He seems pretty sure this boat will work 110% but will not allow us (and we offered to PAY him for his time) to take it out, at all.

Just want some feedback for all you boat owners. Is this fair? Should we buy the boat and take his word (and his companies word) that the boat will run perfect?

-CUBE-

slasmith1 · #2 January 30th, 2009, 06:40 PM

If it is a reputable buisness and will give you a 100% satisfaction money back guarantee for 7-10 days so you can test drive get a survey fine (if it is in writing) if not his word isn't worth much

Bond-o · #3 January 30th, 2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Is this fair? Should we take his word (and his companies word) that the boat will run perfect?

Ayuh,...

Only with a Written Warranty....

Rocky_Road · #4 January 30th, 2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bond-o

Ayuh,...

Only with a Written Warranty....

+1!

Just keep in mind, that you are dealing with a salesman...and their goal is to get your signature on the dotted line, and your cashier's check in their pocket.

A verbal promise doesn't get you anywhere, in Small Claims Court. A written promise of no issues...even handwritten, and signed by a Sales Manager...will probably cover you.

Use your best gut feeling....

cribber · #5 January 30th, 2009, 06:59 PM

Not giving you a chance to water test the boat sends off red flags. It's like buying a car without test driving it around the block at least.

get everything in writing is your best recourse if something goes south.

cube21 · #6 January 30th, 2009, 07:09 PM

I understand everything you guys are saying. The seller will only "promise" there wont be any issues, or that they will be fixed. He will not include any sort of warranty or written agreement other than the fact that he will come with us so we will all be satisfied.

Pissing me off actually, finally find what we want and now this.

We even offered to make a nonrefundable down payment, allow him to come with us for a few hours with the option of still returning it, and then pay the rest when we are sure....but he simply will not make any written promises. The company is reputable, as far as I can tell, but I dont understand why he will only tell us everything will be perfect, instead of just giving us a written one-hour warranty. Were not asking that much.

I guess it comes down to if we want to take the risk that something goes horribly wrong, or leave it and wait until another one comes around. (btw, we are very picky about what we want and they dont come around very often).

-CUBE-

lkbum · #7 January 30th, 2009, 07:23 PM

If you have time, you need to read these threads by Doc Vegas.
Here is the link http://forums.iboats.com/search.php?searchid=2899191
He is on Lake Meade (I think). Anyway he was shopping for a cruiser, looked at a Sea Ray Sundancer, private owner, good records and a Reposessed Maxum. Picked the Maxum, more boat for the money, took the risk of buing a "repo" and has had some issues with dealer he purchased from.

Rocky_Road · #8 January 30th, 2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cube21

I understand everything you guys are saying. The seller will only "promise" there wont be any issues, or that they will be fixed. He will not include any sort of warranty or written agreement other than the fact that he will come with us so we will all be satisfied.

Pissing me off actually, finally find what we want and now this.

We even offered to make a nonrefundable down payment, allow him to come with us for a few hours with the option of still returning it, and then pay the rest when we are sure....but he simply will not make any written promises. The company is reputable, as far as I can tell, but I dont understand why he will only tell us everything will be perfect, instead of just giving us a written one-hour warranty. Were not asking that much.

I guess it comes down to if we want to take the risk that something goes horribly wrong, or leave it and wait until another one comes around. (btw, we are very picky about what we want and they dont come around very often).

-CUBE-

Tough one....

I bought my current boat on eBay...based on pictures, and the seller's history. The boat has been great, and the seller even sent me the missing stern light...even though I didn't have any written agreement.

If you are ready to post a non-refundable deposit, then you will do just as well spending that money on a professional survey (probably cheaper). Then you will have a paper record as to the condition of the boat, and ANY items that will need attention...and from a truely objective expert.

cube21 · #9 January 30th, 2009, 07:34 PM

We planned on a having an expert check it out anyway. How much does that usually cost?

I guess I need to change the subject a little. Im not too worried about problems with the boat if we get a survery done by an expert, he will tell us whats wrong, if anything...

The real problem is that we have only test-driven a few boats and were not sure if we will like this one. Its a Bayliner 205 BR XT. Really we just want to be sure we will like the ride and comfort of it on the water. Hate to buy a boat and realize a week later it rides really rough. Its the size, power, and seating we want, we just have no knowledge of Bayliner, the hull, or how it will ride.
...anyone have any info on these boats?

Also if we get the boat inspected professionally, how will he tell if there is any engine problems if the boat can't get in the water to really know? How accurate are these surveys when it comes to small technical problems?

-CUBE-

dlngr · #10 January 30th, 2009, 07:39 PM

After my experience working in the used car market,and a new car dealer ship for 4 awful years,I wouldn't even look at the boat in question-too many ifs,ands,and Butts involved in that deal. Go to a reputable dealer,or private owner.
The motto at the new chevy dealer I worked at was: "promise them anything,just get the cash" That dealer owned 26 franchises at the time.The bigger they are,the more they stink. [can you tell I hate big business?]
Why not tell the experts on this forum what the boat is,and the price??? These guys know their boats.

Rocky_Road · #11 January 30th, 2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cube21

We planned on a having an expert check it out anyway. How much does that usually cost?

I guess I need to change the subject a little. Im not too worried about problems with the boat if we get a survery done by an expert, he will tell us whats wrong, if anything...

The real problem is that we have only test-driven a few boats and were not sure if we will like this one. Its a Bayliner 205 BR XT. Really we just want to be sure we will like the ride and comfort of it on the water. Hate to buy a boat and realize a week later it rides really rough. Its the size, power, and seating we want, we just have no knowledge of Bayliner, the hull, or how it will ride.
...anyone have any info on these boats?

Also if we get the boat inspected professionally, how will he tell if there is any engine problems if the boat can't get in the water to really know? How accurate are these surveys when it comes to small technical problems?

-CUBE-

Your question as to Bayliner, needs to be posted on the Bayliner forum. Then, you will get some 'hands on' feedback as to the 205.

My second boat is a 2005 Bayliner 175 (almost hated to give you the model...not as impressive as the 205)...and it is one of the best boats that I have owned. Not fancy, but well constructed, and seemingly bullet proof. There is a lingering put-down for Bayliner, based on past years (and ownership)...but that has all changed. I expect my Bayliner to outlive me....

A professional surveyor will check the engine compression, and the condition of the outdrive. I am sure (someone correct me, if wrong!) that he will run the engine on the muffs...and that will be more than needed, to expose any cooling, or engine, issues. Remember...you are paying him/her to find any problems...and they will be more than anxious to justify their fee!

cube21 · #12 January 30th, 2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlngr

After my experience working in the used car market,and a new car dealer ship for 4 awful years,I wouldn't even look at the boat in question-too many ifs,ands,and Butts involved in that deal. Go to a reputable dealer,or private owner.
The motto at the new chevy dealer I worked at was: "promise them anything,just get the cash" That dealer owned 26 franchises at the time.The bigger they are,the more they stink. [can you tell I hate big business?]
Why not tell the experts on this forum what the boat is,and the price??? These guys know their boats.

First. wow. I dont wonder why the car companies are broke as f*ck now.
and honestly i was a little worried that too many details would mean somebody else would find the boat and take it before I could! HAHA.
Its a 2005 Baylinder 205 XT. No extras, all standard equip, with wakeboard tower and bimini top. $12,800 is the price. I doubt he will negociate.

I will start a new thread just about this boat specifically to get some more info. Thanks everyone.

-CUBE-

slasmith1 · #13 January 30th, 2009, 08:37 PM

In this market everything is negotiable. Bayliners are good boats I have owned several from a 16ft capri to a 4788 phmy. They are also a brand that is mass produced so none are rare except the one that is moored next to me (the only 50 they ever made prototype) go find one at another dealer and test drive it.

azlakes · #14 January 30th, 2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cube21

He says before selling, they run through every nook and crany of every boat, replacing bearings, fixing anything damaged, and inspecting every corner.
-CUBE-

... hard to check everything if not in the water. has he fired it up for you at least on muffs? the whole "21 point inspection" and "we check everything thoroughly" man i truely doubt it. buyer beware. 13K seems so so , even at otd price... show him a cashiers check based on lake test, have him meet you at pleasant. also keep in mind, you dont need to buy a boat, but he surely needs to sell one

good hunting

cube21 · #15 January 30th, 2009, 09:20 PM

I reposted in the Bayliner section.

______

Quote:

Originally Posted by azlakes

... hard to check everything if not in the water. has he fired it up for you at least on muffs? the whole "21 point inspection" and "we check everything thoroughly" man i truely doubt it. buyer beware. 13K seems so so , even at otd price... show him a cashiers check based on lake test, have him meet you at pleasant. also keep in mind, you dont need to buy a boat, but he surely needs to sell one

good hunting

Hey dude.....thanks for the input. but read the first post. I cant get him to give me a lake test.

capt sam · #16 January 30th, 2009, 10:35 PM

You can't test the motor under load on muffs, I wouldn't touch that boat with a ten foot pole under those conditions, too many red flags.

eaglejim · #17 January 30th, 2009, 11:38 PM

If you can't get them to sign anything record it,when ever I deal with sales people I put a small recorder in my pocket they never know and I do love catching them in little lies

chiefalen · #18 January 30th, 2009, 11:50 PM

If it is not contained within the contract any thing they say doesn't matter.

If they don't give you a written warranty then there is noo warranty.

It's buyer beware.

So beware tell them no written warranty, no sale, adios amigos.

So many boats out there i'm sure you will find one.

But just for the heck of it sams club had a open bow 3.0.l with a top and all the usgc required stuff 13 thousand new with the trailer.

Did you price a new Bayliner ?

ziggy · #19 January 31st, 2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

I wouldn't touch that boat with a ten foot pole under those conditions, too many red flags.

that's where i stand on this story too. sounds like a good salesman to me. offers the world, but won't back it up on paper. this is a buyers market. folks are starving. i don't think that salesman really wants to sell a boat. least not the way he's acting. his way or no way.. fooey on him and his boat.... no matter how cool it is. there's another boat out there for you. probably a better one too...

superpop · #20 January 31st, 2009, 02:16 AM

If it is a V8 then that is a steal, if it is a 4 banger than not so much, in fact that is not enough power for that boat. A lot depends on the drive set up. If it is a v6 or v8 then go hire a marine mechanic to go with you and ask the sales guy if he can check it out and if you can use his hose. Do a compression test and give it a good going over with him. If the mechanic says it is like new as well then I would buy it. Look the whole thing over and check under the dash for corrosion on the terminals (Sign that it has been submerged) just climb all over the thing, you will know right away if it is really a good deal. Look at the outdrive bolts, you can tell when the 6 main bolts have been removed as most mechanics scuff the pockets were the bolt are when they are doing a service. Little clues like that will tell you a bit about the boats history. Look for rot and soft spots although even on a two year old Bayliner that is probably not going to be a issue. If it all checks out then you cannot go wrong for that price. IF it is a v6 or v8. If it is a 4 banger then walk away.

cube21 · #21 January 31st, 2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superpop

If it is a V8 then that is a steal, If the mechanic says it is like new as well then I would buy it.

It is a 5.0L V8.
superpop - would you buy this boat for $12,800 without ever doing a lake test? ...just an inspection by a mechanic?

This is hard. I have some people saying "STAY AWAY!!!!" and others saying "its a steal, go for it" just want to keep in everyones mind that this is a company, not just a seller, so does that give any more power to the cause...?

Dont want to get tied up in court issues here....but lets just say I record Steve - the owner of Diversified Remarketing - saying he will gauruntee there wont be any problems, and hell fix anything wrong, etc etc. And then something does go south with the entire situation...how much proof is the recording, really?

-CUBE-

cbavier · #22 January 31st, 2009, 06:41 AM

You've gotten a lot of good advice here. I too vote. Nothing in writing. Stay away. A salesman will tell you anything they think you want to hear to make a sale. No Lake/water test no deal and I would have it Marine Surveyed too. USCG Marine surveyor. Run cube21 run. Find another boat. There are lots of boats for sale out there.

JoLin · #23 January 31st, 2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbavier

You've gotten a lot of good advice here. I too vote. Nothing in writing. Stay away. A salesman will tell you anything they think you want to hear to make a sale. No Lake/water test no deal and I would have it Marine Surveyed too. USCG Marine surveyor. Run cube21 run. Find another boat. There are lots of boats for sale out there.

Couldn't have said it better.

tmh · #24 January 31st, 2009, 08:50 AM

How it rides depends on what you're looking for. If you want a Cadillac smooth ride in choppy waters - no, Bayliner 205 isn't the boat for you. Fast, responsive, fun ride ..... that boat with the V8 should deliver.

How does the salesman know the boat runs fine if HE'S never been on it in the water? It's a repo, right? So he's just blowing smoke. Being 3 years old it very well MAY run great, just no way to tell for sure.

SS MAYFLOAT · #25 January 31st, 2009, 09:32 AM

About all bank repo auctions will not let you drive any vehicle. Mostly a liability issue with the banks. Some auctions will let you start them up but that is all. That is why most vehicles at auctions go for less than a normal seller. Pretty much you get what you pay for. 50/50 chance your getting a Diamond in the Rough, or a Pig in a Poke.

The only time I buy a boat without doing a water test is when I know it is a project boat that needs some serious loving.