'94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Hello. I"ve been posting in my other thread about this motor regarding low comp, but I've also been trying to figure out what is up with the lower unit. I'm not getting much help on it in the other thread, so figured I'd start a new one just for this. Here is my problem, and what it's doing.
First off, this is a project motor, so it's not on a boat, and I can't get it on a boat since I don't current'y even have a console in my boat.
I can't get it to change gears at all manually, with the controls disconnected. So, if I connect the controls to it, I can get it into forward, although a bit "clumsily." I can't get it into reverse at all. I can get the controls to go into reverse, but the engine isn't in reverse, since I can spin the propshaft by hand. If I get the controls into reverse and then (leaving it that way) disconnect the control cable, the motor will instantly pop back into the neutral position. I tried turning the prop shaft by hand to get it to line up, nothing doing. Also tried that with the flywheel just in case, same result. If I watch the shift rod under the carbs as I shift it, I can see the rod move down when it goes into forward, but when I try to put it in reverse, the rod actually moves towards the front of the motor, front to back, instead of up or down. I don't know how it is supposed to move, but if forward is down, I'd think reverse would be up. It almost seems like the rod is flexing or bending out instead of shifting into reverse. I can't really explain it much more than that.
Does anyone have any ideas on what is going on with it? I can tell someone has been working on this engine before I got it, so I don't know what they were doing, what they did, or how knowledgable they were when doing it. I am open to suggestions at this point, even if it means pulling the LU to check it out. I've never done it before, but with the help from members on here and from doing some reading on it, it doesn't sound terribly complicated.
If you think it's something else, please let me know, any and all suggestions are appreciated.
Last thing, is I pulled the lower unit drain screw to check the fluid. I don't know if this stuff is just terribly old or what, but it's nothing close to the color of the oil I use in my other outboard. It could just be seriously old and dirty, but let me know what you think. Attached are 2 pics, one if of the oil that came out of this thing (no, not all of it, just some), the other is the kind of oil I normally use, it's Pennzoil.




The pics should be clickable to view them in full size.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

as i said earlier in the other post, sounds like someone dropped the lower unit, and did not get the shift rod back correctly, they either did not connect it correctly, or the turned the shift rod, changing the linkage length. when the unit is off there is a measurement the shift rod needs to be adjusted to.

the oil you are using is fine. looks like someone just use regular 80-90 wt oil.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

The place I got it from was an auto repair shop, and my first thought was that stuff looked like manual trans. gear oil for a car. Maybe they played with it, who knows.
I'll probably change it out before I ever use it, but for now I'm leaving it in there since it's not running anyways.
So how do I find out how long that shift rod is supposed to be when the LU is off? And would that really make it give me forward but not reverse? That just seems odd to me.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

if the shift shaft is to low the system will engage the foward gear and the reverse gear will not engage correctly. in order to adjust this you must remove the lower unit and place it in neutral. make sure the shift shaft is straight and it's offset is facing to the left. the correct measurement for the shift shaft height for a standard 20inch shaft is 21-11/16 to 21-3/4 inches.measure from the lower unit mating surface and not at the base of the shift shaft, turn the shaft clockwise to shorten or counterclockwise to lengthen. hopes this helps you out!!

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Thanks for the info. I'll have to give that a try over the next few days. I've got to go look up some threads again on how to remove the lower unit, since this is my first time doing it and I want to make sure I don't break something else in the process.

One more question, just to be sure. When the LU is off, I should be able to shift it by moving the shift rod, correct? Up and down, and in the middle is neutral? I would like to make sure I can at least get it to shift while it's off, b/c if I can't then I assume I have a bigger problem.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

correct, while there service the water pump, atleast a new impeller. no need to take it off again.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Yeah, I'm going to replace the entire water pump kit, just have to get one. I am going to get it off first, b/c I'm wondering if they removed the LU to do that, then put it back on wrong. Won't know until I take a look at it. How many bolts are there holding the LU on? I've been searching for a good thread about how to do it but nothing is really helping, everyone seems to have a problem with the shift linkage, but there's not really any other info I've found after 3 pages of search results. It is sounding like 2 on either side, and then another one (or two?) under or around the trim tab. Is there one on the front of the housing also? My old '78 35hp had a bolt in the front too, but I don't recall seeing one there earlier while checking the LU oil.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

i think there are 7. 3 each side, one under the trim tab. just off the top of my head. the hardest part is the shift linkage, off and on.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Thanks, I'll let ya'll know how it goes once I get it off.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Ok, so, having the carbs and fuel filter completely removed has made getting the shift linkage off pretty easy. I hadn't noticed anywhere that mentioned this, but I had to pull a clevis pin out of the linkage by the shift cable side so I could pivot the shift arm over and release the shift linkage. With that out of the way I thought it was good to go. Apprarently I was wrong. Here is what I have unbolted so far:
2 bolts on either side of the lower unit.
1 large bolt above the prop (not the one under the trim tab)
1 bolt and anode between previously mentioned large bolt and trim tab
Trim tab was removed
Oh looky, there's a bolt way up there too! Ok, put a ratchet on it, one little twist, snap!

So, now what? I don't know if it's threaded into the lower unit AND the motor, or not, but I still can't get this LU to budge. I've been hitting it (although not with excessive force) with a rubber mallet, it's not moving. Is it just frozen on there, is that bolt that snapped threaded into the lower unit AND the midsection?
Anybody have any suggestions?
I don't know what else to do. If I've got all the bolts, and that snapped one is NOT threaded into the LU also, then the LU should still come off, but it's not.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

remove the plugs, and rock the flywheel back and forth, sounds like the drive shaft splines are rusted into the crank shaft. if it get down to it, hang the motor upside down, and about 1/2 inch off the ground. the power head is much heavier than the lower unit, then work it. and let gravity help.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

What about that broken bolt? I wouldn't think it's threaded into the lower unit and the midsection, but heck, ya never know. I'll give that a try for now and see what happens.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

i think just the midsection, if i remember correctly.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Ok, so Tashasdaddy was correct. It wa sjust frozen on there, although frozen by what is a good question. The splines look just fine, no rust on them at all, but the shaft is pretty bad. Heck, the entire thing was pretty bad once I got it off. I had to get a screwdriver and hammer it into the seam where the LU meets the midsection. I got it started, then worked my way around it. I got it about 1/2" separated, then it wasn't moving. So I got my BFS (big f*in screwdriver) and just winched it open. Take a look for yourselves at what was inside this thing. The thumbnails are clickable:



I am thinking at this point, this motor was found somewhere, or at least overheated due to how much sand is in this lower unit. I have not pulled the water pump off yet since I don't have the new kit yet and don't want to forget how it came apart. I guess I brought a nice piece of NC back to FL with me with how much sand was in there. I fish a lot of shallow waters, flats mostly, and I've never had something like this before (I've never done my own, but no one has ever told me it was caked in sand before). I may end up ordering a thermostat gasket now and checking that just to make sure it's ok. Is there aything else anyone could suggest I may want to take a look at on this motor, cooling wise, that would have been adversely affected by this large quantity of sand? I spent an hour with a small flat head screwdriver scraping all this crap out.
I am sure I will have more questions when I get to the water pump b/c some of it around the water pump shaft fell apart when it came apart, but I'll cross that when I get there.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Ok, now I've been playing with the shifting aspect of it, and let me tell ya, this thing's about as hard to shift as you can get. I can pull it into forward (up on the lever), but I can't get it back down into neutral. I had to use a rubber mallet to get it back into neutral. I don't know how good of an idea it is to use the mallet on that, but it's the only way I can get it to shift. As for reverse, same thing. I had to beat it (like literally) with the mallet, and I could feel it getting closer and closer to reverse. At first I could spin the propshaft and could just barely feel it trying to catch in gear, then I hit it some more and it was catching but not very well. Finally, after some more beating it went into reverse. Once again, I had to clamp vice grips on it and hit them with the mallet to get it out of reverse.
So, my question now is why is this so hard to shift? I would like to know what the thing is that bolts down the to LU at the base of the shift rod, it appears to be a seal or something, but this thing is so bad off I honestly can't tell. I'd like to know if it's possible for this to have sand (or anything) in it enough to make it this hard to shift. Otherwise, this is also a possibility, could the lower unit be in worse shape than I'm thinking. All I have to go on so far is the oil that came out was not milky and had no shavings in it, but what if they had just changed the fluid, and since I'm only running it on muffs it would really have much water to get in there to make it milky.
How big of a deal is it to open the LU up just for inspection? I assume I will need a new gasket or whatever at the least to put it back together if all looks to be ok.
Looking for thoughts/suggestions before I move forward with anything else. I'ma lready up to $200 in parts I need to order, so I may as well add to it while I can before I place an order instead of paying for shipping twice.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

i think i would pressure wash the whole thing, lower and the midsection, and see what is really there. it could be sand and crud binding the shift rod. that may have been what was holding it. looks like concrete.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

Well I've scraped all that crap out of my way, and with the lower unit off and just pushing on the rod to shift it manually, it's that hard as stated above. I'd like to know what that is where the shift rod goes into the lower unit, if it's some kind of a seal or what, and maybe it's packed pull of crap also and that's why it's darn near impossible to shift this thing.
How would I pressure wash the midsection? Wouldn't I risk getting water up the shaft where the splines meet and causing more corrosion? I do plan to clean the crap out of the lower unit around the water pump and all that though.
Also, is there a way to clean up that shaft that has the splines on it, as well as the shift rod? I'd like to get all that rust off, but don't want to make it worse or clean it up just to make it more prone to corrosion. I don't know what I could clean it up with that wouldn't harm the shaft, and I would need to seal it with something afterwards also, I just don't know what.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

i thought i had given you this link, http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=bf6ad09c53cead335fcfd8a6471c0f7f
where it says evinrude upper left, use drop down menu to johnson, follow prompts. to your motor, diagrams and parts list for the complete motor.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

the shift rod goes into a rubber grommet that does act as a oil seal. I would pressure wash everything i could to remove all of the heavy stuff first then either use a wire brush or a piece of sand paper to clean up that shift rod and drive shaft. check this website out for a more visual understanding of what you may need for parts or thier descriptions. http://www.shop.evinrude.com I would not worry about causing any more corrosion, looks like that motor has had a hard life, normally the drive shaft and shift rod do not come in contact with any amount of water that would cause that much corrosion unless it has been submerged for quite a while or more than likely all that sand ruined the water pump causing excessive water to enter the midsection overtime.

Re: '94 60hp Johnson Can't Get Into R

From the looks of this thing I'd say it sat in the water for a while, allowing the sand to fill whatever it could around the water pump. I did check that site and make a list of parts I would need to replace that, but I want to get it cleaned up as good as I can to avoid and contamination of the lower unit by all this sand and gunk. Then I will pull it off and clean whatever is under it the best I can. I have some extra extra fine steel wool, so I may use that to get what rust I can off and causing the least amount of damage to the shafts.
I just can't believe how much crap was in there, I'm seriously dumbfounded by all of that sand.