Pollution

Another thread started going in the direction of motors polluting the water.
Rather than hijacking the thread, I figured pollution and the water in general was a 'nuther topic.
It's been my experience that boaters are very sensitive to the water and pollution. So here's you chance to express your thoughts!!!

Personally, I feel if boats were 100% pollution free, it would not make a big enough difference. It's just big brother pushing feel good crap down everyone's throats when they don't really have a clue what they are doing.

Millions of gallons of raw sewage continue to flow and overflow (which I have tracked here on the Chesapeake for a few years now). Pumping stations are
Runoff has been occurring since the beginning of time. Aside from agriculture, new homes in my County must collect the rainwater and disperse it underground on the property. We now need a permit to cut down a dead tree. Every other year a barge founders. They have been full of nasty things like oil and acid.
The Chesapeake went noticeably downhill in the early 70's. Just prior to that, when waterfront property became popular and the boaters complained of all the seaweed clogging up their props, the local government (in the late 60's) decided a chemical know as 2,4-D was the ticket. This rid the waterways of the problem and the bottom of the food chain. For those of you unfamiliar with 2,4-D, this is one of the "rainbow pesticides" more commonly known as Agent Orange. Did I mention that three of our zip codes have the highest cancer rates in the Country?

Well, I guess that's enough to get the thread going.

Re: Pollution

I don't have to go back many years, though I have many years to go back to, to remember what our country was like before the tree huggers started calling the American public on what we had done and were doing to our environment.

There were lakes we couldn't boat on or fish in because of raw sewage, there were many cities enveloped in a green/brown cloud of foul air (smog), a river actually burned because of all the floating oil and debris.

The root of commuting and suburban living was people trying to escape the foul odors and atmosphere in the cities.

I remember as a boy, walking the couple of miles to town and picking up enough cigarette packs to make a ball of the foil that wouldn't fit in the pocket of my overalls and enough soft drink bottles to pay my way to the movies with the deposit refunds.

Our population was little more than half what it is now. Without the movement to protect and clean up our environment our nation would be one huge dump, with poisoned water and poisonous air.

I welcome any new move, however trivial, that continues the trend toward a cleaner, healthier environment. Whining that they don't matter because of the remaining violations is just one big YABUT.

Re: Pollution

I recall being a kid growing up in Seattle near Lake Washington. (For those not familiar, Lake Washington is a 26 mile long, roughly 2 mile wide, 100+ foot deep lake that forms the eastern border of the city of Seattle).

In the late 50's, it was so dirty you could stand in ankle deep water and not be able to see your feet. We were not officially allowed to swim in the lake.

The voters passed "Metro", a bond issue to clean up the whole Puget Sound area, including Lake Washington. I was too young to vote at the time, but I recall many saying it was an expensive boondoggle, but still it passed.

The last time I swam in Lake Washington, some 15 years ago, visibility in the lake was at least 20 to 30 feet, and the whole city gets to enjoy a beautiful lake.

Now it's not "pristine"--perhaps it never will be with the storm water runoff from the city, but I've been told it's as clean as it has ever been since the early 1900's, and it is a wonderful resource that was saved by some forward thinking politicians and voters, and I thank them.

Re: Pollution

The vast majority of out lakes and rivers are far cleaner today than they were 25-40 years ago. I can cite numerous examples, from personal experience.

The past is something we seem to forget, too easily. I'm not saying there isn't more to do but let's not forget how far we've come. Many lessons learned.

We've cleaned up a great majority of our mess, now if many parts of the world would do their part, we might actually get somewhere.

We are NOT the big bad guys when it comes to pollution.

Re: Pollution

DJ said:

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We are NOT the big bad guys when it comes to pollution.

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not the bad guy for sure. In fact when I smoke on my boat, the butts get wetted in the water and tossed in the boat for disposal later. If I see something floating on the water I always troll over and pick it up. something on the shore at the launch? yup, gets picked up as well. I have never once had someone ask me what I was doing.

Re: Pollution

Shizzy said:

If I see something floating on the water I always troll over and pick it up. something on the shore at the launch? yup, gets picked up as well.

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Good man.
That's exactly one of the things I had in mind when I said boaters are very sensitive to the water and pollution. I keep a net on board just for scooping up miscellaneous flotsom and jetsom...found a few treasures that way too.

Re: Pollution

I'm the same way. If it doesn't belong in the water, I'll pick it up and bring it ashore for disposal.

However those a-holes who throw old fishing line overboard when fixing a snag, that's a whole different topic. It's unfortunate that they don't have the sense or storage on board to hold onto some old fishing line until they get back to shore.

If you brought it out there with you, bring it back. The only exception I have to this is an apple core, etc. It'll biodegrade/rot and sink to the bottom. I don't see that as an issue. Thoughts on that one? Am I as bad as those with the fishing line overboard?

Re: Pollution

I don't know where this motto came from, but I like it:

"Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints."

Re: Pollution

Often times, "millions of gallons of raw sewage" is a misnomer, IMO.

Runoff from heavy rains, is way too much for a water treating plant to handle, so it is diverted directly into a waterway.

Since the rainwater is not treated, technically it is considered "raw sewage", even though it's impact on the environment is minimal, since it is, after all. mostly rainwater.

The media loves it when this happens. They make it sound like a half million tiolets are being flushed, directly into a waterway.

Re: Pollution

Nope.
I have collected documentation. (How 'bout that for a hobby!).
Some is readily available at the EPA's web site.
Trust me when I say it's raw sewage - it's raw sewage...and I suspect the numbers are low. Who wants to admit they spilled more rather than less. I'd estimate the media reports about one fourth of what I have documented.

Re: Pollution

mthieme said:

.... Personally, I feel if boats were 100% pollution free, it would not make a big enough difference. ....

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Sorry, this is a cop out... If we ignore all the things people consider to be 'not significant enough to be bothered with', then we are going to end up right back where we started.... EVERYTHING is significant.... and the more 'big brother' focuses on these smaller issues, the sooner things will start to improve. I am NOT suggesting we ignore the bigger issue, like your raw sewage.... I am just saying that I believe that everything needs to be looked at...

In a different thread, quite a few months ago, I was lambasted for suggesting that someone should put away their beloved old 1950 something outboard because of the amount of unburnt oil it would be leaving in the water, as compared to the more environmentally friendly units of today... I got hammered with reliability and the fact that they only use it on bank holidays and full moons. If everybody takes that attitude, then we are doomed to live on a polluted, poisonous planet...

Originally in my boat was a nice old 1972 165 Mercruiser... Lovely engine... Ran all day, everyday... but used twice as much fuel as the new engine.... That means twice as much CO2, and depletion of a finite resource twice as quickly... Sure, my contribution is VIRTUALLY insignificant... But all the people with virtually insignificant contributions eventually adds up to significant....

Chris............

Re: Pollution

I hear ya. I'm not saying every little bit doesn't help. I'm just saying it doesn't put a (big enough) dent in things.
My point is that big brother produces bigger problems and doesn't get held accountable much less rectify any issues.
Yeah, the sewer system is antiquated and needs to be replaced. They know it, but don't seem to want to do anything about it. Big bucks - go figure. They have no problem spending money on sexier projects though.
Dunno about down under, but up here, politicians avoid no win sexless projects like the bubonic plague.

In 1972, the local County built a school complex - elementary, middle and high schools. There was no water or sewer or storm drain system for about 3 miles. However, a creek was right across the road through 100 yards of woods. They designed the complex's sewer system to dump out into the creek. Raw. They actually put a pipe under the road and extended the creek to the pumping station. Do I need to describe what happened to the creek? Fortunately the Maryland Anti Pollution Organization formed due to this and got that changed. This was my first experience as an environmental activist at age 11. To this day, they truck the sewage to the nearest treatment plant 8 miles away (which happens to be on a river as well) where they "treat" it and it goes back into the river. While there are no lump fish coming out of the plant, I wouldn't drink, bathe or water the lawn with it.

One more quickie....
Two or three years ago we had a blackout in the Northeast which is where approximately 70% of the population is. The blackout didn't effect this much of the population though, but I'll guesstimate half. The blackout lasted for like 18 hours +/-. The power plants were off line. Down. Air pollution decreased 75% in that short time period. Let me repeat that. We effectively turned off our coal burning electric generators and the air cleaned up almost instantly. Yes we still had a rush hour with probably millions of vehicles pumping out NOx and CO into the atmosphere.
What conclusions can we draw from that?
It will be a long time before we convert our coal plants unlike other countries. We are the Saudi Arabia of coal and the main deposits (being worked) are in the Northeast conveniently.

okay, I'm through typing...for now!

Re: Pollution

achris said:

That means twice as much CO2, and depletion of a finite resource twice as quickly... Sure, my contribution is VIRTUALLY insignificant... But all the people with virtually insignificant contributions eventually adds up to significant....

Chris............

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I exhale C02 and so does every other living mammal on this planet. As I get older, I'm using up a lot of my "finite resources". Perhaps we're the problem. If you think there is a problem.

Re: Pollution

DJ said:

I exhale C02 and so does every other living mammal on this planet. As I get older, I'm using up a lot of my "finite resources". Perhaps we're the problem. If you think there is a problem.

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Now that's just being cynical... You know what I'm getting at....

Re: Pollution

Tremendous strides have been made over the past years in cleaning things up. For the most part (but not totally or everywhere) the US environment is much better than it was in the 50's and 60's.

That said, there are many regulations being promulgated that don't make sense. We could each list many things that don't make sense. Where I live in west Michigan, there are many counties being cited for poor air quality. No matter what they did to cars and vehicle emissions (and a good thing, no doubt) it would still not mitigate the problem until pollution from Chicago and Milwaukee is controled. I really feel bad for SE Ontario getting all the crud from Detroit and Flint. Except for the west coast, most areas probably get the majority of their pollution from other areas.

And no matter how much the US and other industrialized nations clean up their air pollution, globally it will make just a small dent in the problem until China, India, and Brazil clean up their environmental issues. That doesn't mean we shouldn't, but the law of diminishing returns indicates that all the US effort won't bring about as much good as a much lower effort in the "third world" countries.

Even so, the question is how to do this. As an arch-conservative, I tend to abhor government regulation. However, government can and should use its power to tax and regulate to make undesirable actions financially unattractive. Does this mean something like a "carbon tax"? Egads! Does this mean I might actually side with US liberals on this?? In a way, this year's gas price spike is doing the same thing -- turning many from high-consumption vehicles to more economical vehicles. I suspect something similar is beginning to happen for boaters.

And, JB, thanks for the quote -- "Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but fotoprints." I'm not sure it originated with the Sierra Club, but I remember that when my bride and I did backpacking in the early 70's.