A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

I have an 89' Force 125hp, on an 89' 19' Bayliner Ski boat, and have found when starting, that I can't just jump in my boat, pump up the fuel bulb, hit the key, and expect it to start, twice now it has dissappointed me It's been a Bear to start! I've had to resort to a no, no, using starting fluid! and being surprised, when even that didn't work Well, as it appears I need to turn the key (ignition) on, for a couple minutes to energize the electronic igntion, Then try starting it using the normal procedure, and it cranks right up! Also, I've noticed, once the engine is warmed up, there is none of these issues for the rest of the day.

Each of these issues developed, on first startup after winterizing, (long term storage), or after a long term of non use (for me, a month later after doing some repairs). Maybe this is not a problem with regular use? This still needs to be determined.

Disclaimer: This may, or may not, apply to your motor, but it sure does to mine!

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Hmmm, never had to warm up the ignition.

Open fuel tank vent

Check the kill switch, place in "run" position

Squeeze fuel primer bulb till firm.

******* Advance the throttle 3/4 way, without putting it in gear. -- This is done by either pushing a button in the center of the controls, or pulling the shift handle toward the driver, or raising the fast idle lever, all depending on what controls unit you have.

Activate the choke (fuel enrichment valve) by pushing in on the key. The valve is only open while the key is being pushed in.

Turn the key to start while continuing to hold the key in.

Release the key and choke when it starts.

3-5 seconds of "choke", is usually enough.

Be ready to pull the throttle back toward the idle/neutral position, when the engine starts and the revs increase.

Continue to pull the throttle back as the engine warms up.

You should not have to use the choke much, if at all, once the engine has warmed up.

Engine should start within 10 seconds of turning the key.

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

roscoe said:

Hmmm, never had to warm up the ignition.

Open fuel tank vent

Check the kill switch, place in "run" position

Squeeze fuel primer bulb till firm.

******* Advance the throttle 3/4 way, without putting it in gear. -- This is done by either pushing a button in the center of the controls, or pulling the shift handle toward the driver, or raising the fast idle lever, all depending on what controls unit you have.

Activate the choke (fuel enrichment valve) by pushing in on the key. The valve is only open while the key is being pushed in.

Turn the key to start while continuing to hold the key in.

Release the key and choke when it starts.

3-5 seconds of "choke", is usually enough.

Be ready to pull the throttle back toward the idle/neutral position, when the engine starts and the revs increase.

Continue to pull the throttle back as the engine warms up.

You should not have to use the choke much, if at all, once the engine has warmed up.

Engine should start within 10 seconds of turning the key.

Click to expand...

As I said, starting using "normal procedure"!

I never had a problem before either!

But not this time during de-winterization about a month ago!
I had my son helping, the boat ready, hitched up to the car, went to start it using the usual procedure, no go, finally killed the battery, not even a sneeze? pulled out the plugs, cleaned them with carb cleaner, cranked, & cranked, no go, let the battery charge awhile, put some starting spray inside the cylinders, No Go! Got in the boat, hit the carbs with some starting spray, No Go, agan not even a sneeze??? Finally after a little while, and more starting fluid, it began trying,,, then finally it ran! But, I saw a stream of water shooting out of the side, rear, of the motor Well guess what? the exhaust cover gasket blew out in one tiny spot! So, I shut it down, unhitched the boat hitched up the jetski, and went to the lake.

Cut to yesterday, after removing, 27 bolts, 1 broken, 2 gaskets- $27, one bolt drilling out, & retapping, and a ton of gasket scraping, & cleaning, it was back together finally, I took out the plugs, and cleaned them again, put the battery charger on it first, and now to start it up, and test it,,, Same Scenario as before, a No Go! While my neighbor went to get his starting fluid, I decided to leave the ignition on till he got back, a coupla minutes, I couldn't get into the carbs with the cover on them having no spout on the starting spray can, so I just sprayed the inside of the cover a bit, hoping it would bounce off, and get into the carbs, I hit the key, and the motor just took off, & started! no choke, no nothing? I went to idle it down, it stalled, but then started on it's own, & kept running, better all the time as it warmed up,,,, just like nothing happened in between?! So, the best I can figure is, by leaving the ignition on for a few minutes, it started right up, & kept running, it was not really anything to do with the tiny amount of starting spray that never got directly into the carbs.

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Carbs may be flooding, the time you are waiting they are drying out.

Something is amiss.

Stone cold check for spark.

Check compression.

Got two outta three? Get into those carbs, you will find your problem.

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Only 2, no, 3 reasons ether won't fire.

No Compression

No spark

Engine is already flooded.

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

The motor ran good all last season, it ran fine after the repair once it started, compression is about 120lbs all fairly even. I've been thru everything on this motor since I got it last year, including cleaning the piddle drains.

Starting spray - no start, no spark, that's what I'm saying,,, but leave the ignition on a bit, there's spark, and it starts right up!

I hope to be trying it tomorrow on the lake, we'll see if it starts right away as it usually did or not. This could be only an issue due to long term non use, like over the winter.

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Mike, could this be a problem within the ignition switch itself? Do you have a spare switch you could swap out and try? ...or try a quick bypass/hot wire? Ideally a 'rigged/test' ignition right back at the engine is best to take not only the dash ignition switch but the wiring 'run' to the motor out of the troubleshooting process to see if it's isolated back at the motor.
I would attempt a quick process of elimination on this to see if it's not something simple along those lines?
My two bits, keep us posted.
BP

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Uhhh! Mik? I hate to bust your bubble, but the only time there is any electrical energy going into the ignition system is when the flywheel is turning. The magnets on the flywheel generate 260 volts in the stator windings to charge the capacitors, and they can not do that unless the flywheel is turning. Same story on the trigger magnets except triggers only generate about 1/2 volt. Engine ignition is a completely separate and isolated system. Look elsewhere for the problem--like maybe the ignition switch itself. Try disconnecting the blue wire and see if she fires on the first shot.

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Hmmm! I would say that you need to clean ALL! elec connections.Pay close attention between Batt and ignition switch and fuse block.

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Thanks for the tips gents! I'll be going over them, and everything else I can think of, because as it turns out I guess my theory don't hold water tried starting the boat this morning before going to the lake,,, it took a bit longer then usual, but started up, and sounded great! Got to the lake, dropped it in, and it cranked for a little bit, but didn't start Then it suddenly began to crank over too slow to start? and me with out any tools due too rushing to get out, with family visiting,,, we pushed the boat over to the dock, to get out it of the way, and we sat there for 3hrs as I kept trying it on occasion, same thing each time, no spark plug wrench, no booster cables, no starting spray I went to take the battery out of either of my 2 trucks, (as my wife brought up the jetski as well) but no good, because the terminals were different my wife did get to ride the jetski, taking my grandkids out, so it wasn't a total loss, but I finally gave it up, and pulled the boat around to take it out, I was quite frustrated! It was like a zoo, with the holiday wknd, and not one person came over to help, I sure could have used it! I always try to help a fellow boater out too

Also, 2 days ago, I charged the battery up fully to 13.7 volts before I shut it all down, so I was perplexed at the way it was acting?

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Update, The first thing I did was to pull the plugs, and as I suspected it was flooded, they were wet! apparently it also took a toll on the battery (12.7 volts) by trying to start it many times, and tilting it up to try and get the plugs out with a dollar store tool, no luck of course I was stumped, and out of ideas as to how to get past a flooded condition, without any tools.

Today, I cleaned the plugs off, then cranked it over with them out, and the lanyard out, then put them back in, and she started right up, and ran great of course on the muffs in the yard

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Mikdee,

I have found that when they are hard to start you are likely to damage the starter. These starters seem to fail if they get too hot. I am not wishing you any bad luck, but you may have to replace the starter down the road. This has been my experience.

When mine floods, I just sit for about 30 minutes and then try to start it again with no choke.

You may need to rebuild your carbs. Mine is hard to start somtimes and I am going to rebuild mine this winter and I am also going to install a rebuild kit on my fuel pump.

I hope this helps,

Donald

Re: A Heads Up, Starting Issues, Attention All!

Frank Acampora said:

Uhhh! Mik? I hate to bust your bubble, but the only time there is any electrical energy going into the ignition system is when the flywheel is turning. The magnets on the flywheel generate 260 volts in the stator windings to charge the capacitors, and they can not do that unless the flywheel is turning. Same story on the trigger magnets except triggers only generate about 1/2 volt. Engine ignition is a completely separate and isolated system. Look elsewhere for the problem--like maybe the ignition switch itself. Try disconnecting the blue wire and see if she fires on the first shot.

Click to expand...

Frank, Without knowing the electronics of it that well, I'm betting you're right!
I'm just speculating based on an old 69'-Evinrude 115hp V4 I had. Whatever type electronic ignition system was in it, if you tried starting it when cold, usually it would not start unless turned on the ignition, and waited till you heard a faint high pitched whine from the black box on the motor, or you'd be sitting there all day! It ran great, for the whole day once it got energized, most annoying. I never did figure out the trick to get the power pack to energize on demand it was an old, tired, corroded motor, when I got it, but it ran good, and pushed my 16' Wellcraft Airslot to about 35mph. I later sold it, after getting a great deal on a later model 135hp Johnson with a better newer style electronic ignition.

By the way, I took a close look at the plugs, and I can't really tell (because of that stupid surface gap design!) if they need to be replaced or not? Besides I feel they are prone to flood easily with the firing tip fully exposed!
I'd switch to a conventional plug design in a second, if I could find the right heat range!