Sump pump system

gss036

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http://www.basementsystems.com/base...g_products/sump_pump/triplesafe_sump_pump.php

I was looking at this setup at the Northwest WA Fair yesterday. They are using 1/3 & 1/2 hp Zoeller pumps w/ a marine style bilge pump for the battery hook up. The battery was quite large (at least twice the size of the large auto/marine battery) and I suspect a solid or gel cell type battery.
Has anyone here had any experience with this type set up? Now that I am completely retired and free to travel some in the winter, this appears to be the answer. I currently have 2 pumps, one at opposing corners of the split-level basement which is only 42 inches down to the footings. Last year we did not need pumps, but the year before there was about a 3 month period that they ran off and on . When I am home I have a generator to fall back on, not an automatic kick in type though. I have to hook it and monitor the fuel, etc.
 

gss036

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Re: Sump pump system

BUMP> You mean to tell me no one has ever heard of this company? Maybe time to look else where?
 

jsfinn

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Nov 26, 2003
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Re: Sump pump system

In the past, I've looked in to building my own battery backup for a sump pump.

What's nice about what you're looking at is you get 2 pumps and a battery backup. If one pump fails, the other one should hold you over.

From my research in the past, a few things you want to look out for:

-Both pumps probably end up in the same pipe exiting your house. If that pipe becomes clogged, you still have a problem.

-Be sure that the smaller backup pump can both push the water UP enough to get to the exit pipe and also can keep up with the flow of the water in to the sump pit

-The battery doesn't last forever. It'll need to be replaced every few years. They are expensive.

-The run time off of a battery isn't very long.

When I took all of those factors in to account, and also tried to remember how many times I've actually heard my sump pump run (which is exactly 0 times), I decided I'll take my chances and have no backup at all. Worst case, I guess I could rig up an extra boat sump pump temporarily, or run to the hardware store for a pump and generator if I knew the basement was going to get wet if I didn't do something fast. Of course, none of this does me any good if I'm not home.
 

arboldt

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Aug 25, 2007
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Re: Sump pump system

I've not heard of this company, but then I don't know as I've had any cause to. Where we've lived for the past 15 years, we do not need a sump or pump -- our basement is always dry.

Before that we lived in Ft Wayne, and there we definitely needed a sump and pump. We had two interconnected sumps (a primary and an overflow), and the pump in the primary normally ran about every 5-10 minutes year round. One summer there was a severe drought, and then it still ran a couple times an hour. One spring after an ice storm we lost power for 3 days, and we had a couple inches of water flooding the basement:mad:. We did not have a battery backup, and after that length of time I don't think a battery would have lasted to do us much good.

I did have to replace a pump once. All the stores sold primarily 1/3 or 1/2 HP pumps. Because it ran so much, I got the 1/2 HP. As long as it had power, there was never a time it could not keep up.

You need to answer some questions for yourself. Stop and think about your situation.

How often does your sump pump run now? Just how much ground water do you contend with? Unless the pump is running continuously, the size you've got is probably ok.

The answer to the first question also relates to the size of the discharge pipe. It's probably 1.5" - 2". That can handle a lot of water, but if it goes any distance, adding another pump to the process of emptying your sump will help by adding pressure to the discharge. But you will still be limited to how much water will go through it.

Where do you discharge? Years ago it was common to discharge into the municipal sewer, but most city codes prohibit that now; most even require retrofitting. So most discharges go up and over the basement wall, then a shallowly buried pipe out to the street storm sewer, your own drywell, or something like that. When I visited my folks in Minnesota 10 years ago, almost every home discharged to the street. That was fine during the summer, but when it's -30* and the ground is frozen down 2'-3', there were a lot of problems. No matter how powerful the pumps behind it, if there's an ice plug in the discharge line, you're going to have a problem. If you have not experienced this, then it's probably not an issue for you.

If you're having concerns about the pump keeping up, then this system might be ok -- but you should probably also increase the size of the discharge line.

If your main concern is to keep your basement dry while you're gone for an extended time, I don't think this is the answer for you, based on that one experience we had in Ft Wayne. If this is your primary concern, I suggest you put your money into a natural gas or propane-fired generator with an automatic start and transfer box. That way if there's any power outage, you're covered. If you're on propane, be sure to tell the propane company you've got an automatic generator so they can factor in usage for you and keep you from running out. With either gas or propane, you'll never run out of fuel, don't have to mess with refilling the fuel tank, and it'll automatically come on if the power fails for a minute. And you'll have the benefit of lights, your regrigerator, freezer, etc when the rest of the neighborhood is dark. And you won't have to worry about it if you're gone 3 months.
 

xxxflhrci

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Jun 14, 2008
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637
Re: Sump pump system

I used to worry greatly about my sump pump in the event of a power outage during a rainy season. Then, State Farm came out with a rider that covers sewer back-up and sump pumps. It only costs me 40 bucks a year for replacement value coverage.
 

gss036

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Re: Sump pump system

Thanks for the response. I have been dealing w/this issue since 1969 and have always been close to home. The only time I have ever had a damp/wet floor was with a switch failure, never a pump. I now have 2 pumps installed, one each on opposing corners of the house. We don't loose power like we did several years ago, but it does get awful cold and windy here, usually water is not a problem when it is cold as the ground freezes, but then comes spring. Anyway I have food for thought. Again thank you all for your ideas.
 

Kiwi Phil

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Jun 23, 2003
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2,182
Re: Sump pump system

Here is an idea from someone who has never seen a basement....we don't go below ground.
We do have underground tanks tho...for water storage and grey-water holding.
We use submersible sump pumps that are activated with a float switch, and run off mains power.
They do have a good 'head' on them (lift rating) and mine have 40mm discharge pipe so move a fair amount of water quickly.
They cost under $200 for the good ones;
and here is a cheaper knock-off.
http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/p/sub...wsletter&utm_campaign=DealsNewsletter20080823

Only problem is....if you have an overlaod on your switchboard, and it is tripped 'off', if you are not present, to manually re-set it, then the pump is not going to go.

They last for years.
Cheers
Phillip
 

gss036

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Re: Sump pump system

Thanks for the input Phil. Looks like a good pump, the only drawback to me is the 220-240Volts. 110Volt is standrad house hold voltage here is the states. I do have a well and have that one circuit wored for 220 volt. That would require rewiring. I have had good luck with pumps, it is just switches that go bad. I have tried the float type mercury and the regular type also. Acutually I have one of each installed at the present time.
I just liked the idea of have a back up if the power goes out and no one is at home.
 

arks

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Nov 7, 2002
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Re: Sump pump system

http://www.basementsystems.com/base...g_products/sump_pump/triplesafe_sump_pump.php

They are using 1/3 & 1/2 hp Zoeller pumps w/ a marine style bilge pump for the battery hook up. The battery was quite large (at least twice the size of the large auto/marine battery) and I suspect a solid or gel cell type battery.
Has anyone here had any experience with this type set up? ..... I currently have 2 pumps, one at opposing corners of the split-level basement.

My place has exactly that setup- a 120V pump in one corner, and the 12V backup pump in the other. My wife can't pull-start our generator so I needed an emergency 12V pump to work until I could make it home. My setups have completely seperate piping to the outside. The 12V system is called "Basement Watchdog" and I've had it for maybe 6 or 7 years. I use a standard marine deep-cycle battery and it works fine. The system monitors the battery's condition and includes a trickle charger to keep it topped off. One feature I really like is the manual override switch- I can turn it on to check it (or when empyting the water heater). I've only replaced the battery once in all that time.
One thing I learned- the 12V pump doesn't like large diameter pipe- I originally used 1 1/2" PVC but changed it to 3/4" with a check valve. Much better!
 

jsfinn

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Re: Sump pump system

Arks -

How much run time do you figure you get on that battery with the 12V pump?
 

arks

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Re: Sump pump system

The manufacturer claims up to 8 hours continious run time, but I've never needed to test it out- thankfully. I'll estimate the longest mine has run without power is 2 hours, and that's not continious because it cycles with a float switch.
 

arboldt

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Aug 25, 2007
Messages
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Re: Sump pump system

The manufacturer claims up to 8 hours continious run time, but I've never needed to test it out- thankfully. I'll estimate the longest mine has run without power is 2 hours, and that's not continious because it cycles with a float switch.

In West Michigan, we've had several storms over the past couple years where people have been without power for several days. Not the norm, to be sure, but if youi're one of the unlucky ones and dependent on that sump pump, you'd be in trouble (like we were in Ft Wayne as I described in an earlier post). We haven't had a significant power outage in almost 10 years, but if I was dependent on a sump pump and there was a likelihood I'd be gone for an extended time, I would not rely on a battery backup pump.

If the most you'd be gone is a few hours, then it'd be ok. But an 8-hour (or even a 24-hour) battery run time wouldn't cut it if power was going to be out 3 days. Earlier this summer, some people in grand Rapids were out of power for over 3 days -- and GR is a metro area with over a million population. We're not talking rural / remote areas.
 

Mike Robinson

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Jun 29, 2005
Messages
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Re: Sump pump system

Thanks for the input Phil. Looks like a good pump, the only drawback to me is the 220-240Volts. 110Volt is standrad house hold voltage here is the states. I do have a well and have that one circuit wored for 220 volt. That would require rewiring...

What about your electric stove, dryer, and possibly water heater. Aren't they 220 volts?

Quote from "electric service@Everything2.com"

"Residential service in the United States and Canada is two conductors, each rated at between 110 and 120 volts AC. They are the same phase, which means that the voltage waves on both peak at the same instant. The two conductors can be combined to make between 220 and 240 AC volts. The voltage you get is not defined by your electrician but by the power company. The only way you could not have '220' is if you have lost one of those conductors, or if the utility transformer is bad. In either case, the issue is one of repair and not upgrade."
 
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arks

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Re: Sump pump system

In West Michigan, we've had several storms over the past couple years where people have been without power for several days. Not the norm, to be sure, but if youi're one of the unlucky ones and dependent on that sump pump, you'd be in trouble (like we were in Ft Wayne as I described in an earlier post). We haven't had a significant power outage in almost 10 years, but if I was dependent on a sump pump and there was a likelihood I'd be gone for an extended time, I would not rely on a battery backup pump.

If the most you'd be gone is a few hours, then it'd be ok. But an 8-hour (or even a 24-hour) battery run time wouldn't cut it if power was going to be out 3 days. Earlier this summer, some people in grand Rapids were out of power for over 3 days -- and GR is a metro area with over a million population. We're not talking rural / remote areas.

That's the reason I keep a 5kW emergency generator at the ready. My 12V pump is only intended to work until I can get home and fire up the genny. With the built-in tank it'll run for 8 hours before needing a fill up. As an added benefit it'll run anything in the house so if we have an extended outage I can cycle the well pump, refridgerators and freezers. As a test, I even tried running my central A/C- and even that worked without an overload.
 

gss036

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Re: Sump pump system

I have some 220 Volts lines in the house, but my pumps run on the same 110 Volt as the lights and recpt. My electric dryer, water tank and well pump are all 220.
 
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