'89 force 125 wont crank, electrical problem

hi

last weekend I tried to start the boat, it cranked a couple of times but the third time it didnt,also the power went off, no gauges, not tilt, so I reset it the relays on the engine and turned off and back on the perko switch and the power came back to all the electronics and gauges, then tried to start the engine again and same problem..didnt crank and power went off..I tought the problem was the starter, so I removed the starter, reset the power, crank the ignition switch and this time the power didnt went off and I could hear the click noise from the selenoid, now..I bought a used starter off ebay, installed and I'm having the same problem, and really I dont have any idea of what the problem could be..also don't know howto check the starter, can I just connect it directly to a 12v battery to see if it cranks? thanks.

Re: '89 force 125 wont crank, electrical problem

First, you can test the starter motor by attaching the positive pole of the battery with jumper cables, then touching the battery negative to the ground point on the starter. With that said, the starter motor generates a lot of torque and will twist out of your hands if it turns over. Better to test the motor while it's mounted on the outboard. Also, you will generate a lot of sparks as it takes a lot of amps to turn over the motor, so cover up any wires, etc. and be very careful, keeping away from the battery, fuel, paper towels, your fingers, etc. You can also jump between the two large posts on the starter solenoid to see if the starter turns over. One again, lots a sparks and you have to avoid touching the two small terminals on the solenoid, as well as any metal in the vicinity that could be grounded. In an emergency, I have used a folding knife to short across the two large solenoid terminals, but the knife will never be the same, and it gets hot as hell in the process.

Looking at the wiring diagram for your motor, I see only two circuit breakers. One is for the trim relays, while the other is the breaker on the small red/white power lead that leads from the battery side of the starter solenoid back to the the circuit breaker. The other lead from the circuit breaker goes to the rectifier + terminal and to the ignition switch, providing the power to fire the starter solenoid when the switch is turned, as well as run voltage, instruments, etc. The actual starter motor circuit is not protected by a circuit breaker. The hot lead from the battery + terminal is a large diameter, normally red, cable that connects directly to one of the large terminals on the starter solenoid, then the output from the solenoid goes directly from the other large terminal to the starter. The starter is grounded to the block, the the ground - terminal from the battery is normally landed on the block directly below and underneath the starter itself. I would check the rectifier and the starter relay (much cheaper than anything else).

Rodsailor

Re: '89 force 125 wont crank, electrical problem

rodsailor said:

First, you can test the starter motor by attaching the positive pole of the battery with jumper cables, then touching the battery negative to the ground point on the starter. With that said, the starter motor generates a lot of torque and will twist out of your hands if it turns over. Better to test the motor while it's mounted on the outboard. Also, you will generate a lot of sparks as it takes a lot of amps to turn over the motor, so cover up any wires, etc. and be very careful, keeping away from the battery, fuel, paper towels, your fingers, etc. You can also jump between the two large posts on the starter solenoid to see if the starter turns over. One again, lots a sparks and you have to avoid touching the two small terminals on the solenoid, as well as any metal in the vicinity that could be grounded. In an emergency, I have used a folding knife to short across the two large solenoid terminals, but the knife will never be the same, and it gets hot as hell in the process.

Looking at the wiring diagram for your motor, I see only two circuit breakers. One is for the trim relays, while the other is the breaker on the small red/white power lead that leads from the battery side of the starter solenoid back to the the circuit breaker. The other lead from the circuit breaker goes to the rectifier + terminal and to the ignition switch, providing the power to fire the starter solenoid when the switch is turned, as well as run voltage, instruments, etc. The actual starter motor circuit is not protected by a circuit breaker. The hot lead from the battery + terminal is a large diameter, normally red, cable that connects directly to one of the large terminals on the starter solenoid, then the output from the solenoid goes directly from the other large terminal to the starter. The starter is grounded to the block, the the ground - terminal from the battery is normally landed on the block directly below and underneath the starter itself. I would check the rectifier and the starter relay (much cheaper than anything else).

Rodsailor

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hi roadsailor, thanks a lot for your reply. I've checked the starter and selenoid and both work, I used a spare battery and connected them directly, starter cranked and selenoid had the click noise,is there any way to check the rectifier?

Re: '89 force 125 wont crank, electrical problem

You can check the rectifier with a multimeter. Set the meter on Ohms or resistance, disconnect the wires from the rectifier (marking them, take a digital photo, and draw a schematic). With the wires disconnect, check resistance from the terminal marked + to the terminal marked AC. You should get either OL or open line, or a row of zeroes indicating there is no resistance. Mark down which lead was on which post, and whether the result was OL or 0's. Switch the leads on the multimeter so they are reversed, i.e. if you had the red lead on the + and the black lead on the AC, put the red on the AC and the black on the plus terminal. Mark down which terminals you were on with which lead, and the result. If you get two OL's or two 0's, the rectifier is bad. If you get OL with one hookup, and 0's with the other, move the lead to the other AC terminal, keeping the other lead on the + terminal, and repeat. Results are judged as above. Now move the leads to the - terminal and one of the AC terminals, repeat the above tests, then move the lead on the AC terminal to the other AC terminal and repeat both tests.

A rectifier is basically a solid state bunch of one way valves for electricity. If the rectifier bridge is good, electricity will only flow one way with each of the above connection arrangements.

If the rectifier checks out, hook everything up and start looking for bad connections, loose connectors, broken wires, etc. in the ignition circuit. From your description of the problem, it sounds like you have a short to ground somewhere in the hot side of the circuit. Unfortunately, this can be an intermittent problem, and when you move the wiring bundles around to check, the problem can go away, only to return when you are twenty miles from home on a dark and stormy day.

Rodsailor

Re: '89 force 125 wont crank, electrical problem

thanks again I'll check that tomorrow..

Re: '89 force 125 wont crank, electrical problem

I had the same problem on my force 125. It cranked at first but then wouldnt respond.I had power at the solenoid but apparently the battery terminals had some corrosion on them and as soon as I cleaned them off my problem went away.

Re: '89 force 125 wont crank, electrical problem

hi guys

problem fixed, I checked everything like roadsailor said and all come out good, then checked the battery terminals like nabularach said and they looked fine to me, there was mininal corrosion on the ground terminal..took it out, cleaned out with a metal brush put it back on and this time the motor cranked fine..aparently the problem was that it didnt have good ground....hope that was the only issue, but like roadsailor said....."this can be an intermittent problem, and when you move the wiring bundles around to check, the problem can go away, only to return when you are twenty miles from home on a dark and stormy day".....hope this never happens......

anyway thanks to you all for your help..