t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

hi again everyone and thanks for all of the help. i have an 85 horse 1989 force. i have changed every seal including the small check valve needle seals. the system leaks down. BUT! if i tilt all of the way up it leaks down fast, then i tilt up again and it leaks down slow, then i tilt up and it barely leaks down, one more time and it stays up for a week and dose not move at all. i figure there is air in the system and i cant get it out. i have cycled up and down literally hundreds of times

any ideas? thanks

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

Are you referring to your carbs leaking fuel? If thats the case, try disconnecting the fuel line when you are done boating. The fuel vapor pressure in the gas tank if not vented can cause fuel to flow out through the pump and out to carbs. Under normal circumstance floats close and no fuel can come out, however when motor is tilted or float valve is not closing fuel will come out of the carb and in to the motor cowling.

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

According to the Seloc manual, the Force trim/tilt is not self bleeding. They recommend that you pull the fill plug and cycle the motor up and down three to five times to purge the air trapped in the system, then top off the reservoir and close it up. I do not have any experience with this, but that is the word.

Rodsailor

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

thanks rod. i have tried to do just that too may times to count. there is a stubborn pocket of air somewhere that just will no come out. the cylinders should have bleed screws on them. when i reassembled the system after changing every single o ring, i should have filled up the cylinders before putting the caps on. i might try that tomorrow.

any other ideas? i appreciate the feedback. thanks again

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

Just out of curiosity, did you rebuild the pump and valve body assembly? If yes, where did you find the parts for the valve body? Any help in that area would be appreciated.

If you did rebuild the valve body, did you have to remove the electric motor from the reservoir, or could you take the valve body apart without that step?

Rodsailor

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

hey rod. you gotta take everything apart. get ready to make a mess. take the system off, cylinders and all before you do anything elce. there is not much to go wrong in the pump. the check valves and shuttle valve come out easy. if you do decide to take the pump apart do it slowly and be ready for some ball bearings to fall out. do it on a nice clean table or work bench. and yes you need to remove the 4 screws at the bottom of the res to get at the 4 1/4" bolts holding the pump together.


anyways, does anyone have any help for me. i was just out side and i tilted it all the way up and it fell slowly. so i tilted back up and it is holding. maybee i am finally starting to get the air out. after killing my battery dead 3 times.

any suggestions? please and thankyou

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

it's probably your valve body. If it was piston seals in cyclinders then it would not be intermittent. It would do same thing every time. There is remote possibility that it could be the bypass valve in tilt piston. Extremely unlikely due again to the intermittent nature.

It's probably your valve body. 999 times out of 1,000 it would be your valve body. Intermittent problems usually go back to gear plate but it could also be a bit of debris lodged in the forward (up) check valve.

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

hey rritt. thanks for the responce. originally i figured that the problem was a piece of something lodged in the checkvalve. but this problem is not so intermittent. it does the exact same thing every time. if i tilt all the way up and let it fall down, it falls fast. then i tilt it up again and it falls verry slow. then i tilt it up again and it stays. its wierd. it does exactly that every time. another interesting thing is that once it is staying up i can tilt up and down all i want and it holds, but once i tilt down far enough for it to push on the trim cylinder it almost resets itself and the problem comes back. i am a good troubleshooter, i do it for a living. now that i understand how this system works this problem makes no sense to me.

originally when i started fixing this thing the check valve in the tilt cylinder was mangled. the one that lets the motor down. the other 2 for hitting rocks were fine. so i welded shut the mangled one. i know it is not leaking but maybee i didnt look hard enough at the other 2. but even then if they wer not working the problem shouldnt be the exact same every time. thats why i think there must be air in there somewhere. thats the only logical explination i can come up with. anyways i am going to tear it all apart this weekend and see if i can figure it out.

hey rritt. i have another question for you. on the pump there is a 1/4-20 stud with a nut on it. it holds down a ball bearing with a spring. i assume this has to do with regulating pressure. but across from it there is a spot for another stud but there isnt one there. i dont think the original owner would have gone in there and removed it. is there supposto be another stud on that side? thanks again.

p.s. alot of your older posts have guided me well on this project, just wanted to say thanks for helping out.

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

on 1989 the reverse port wasn't drilled out. instead there is a bypass valve with very small spring and tiny ball. Since the port isn't hydraulically connected there is no valve seat, ball, spring, shim, nut, or bolt.

If I was trying to fix your pump I would look at valve seats. If the valve seat at bottom of adjustment bolt is damaged you would see that kind of problem. Hopefully it is something else. If not, then maybe a machine shop can put the hole back to round for you and maybe you can find a spring supplier with very stiff springs. Since the hole diameter will be different you are going to have to set the pressure by trial and error. You need 900-1400 psi. Too low and 120-150hp might have problems lifting. Too high and you'll blow end caps off check valves.

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

thanks again rritt. i am going to take it all apart tomorrow or monday and have a good look at the valve seats. i will let you know what i find.

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

hey rritt, just wanted to let you know what i found. i determined that the leak down was coming from the tilt cylinder. i had already welded shut one of the relief valves. i could not determine which valve was leaking so i welded all of them shut. now it stays up and does not leak at all. i adjusted the allen stud until i got about 1200 psi which seems to be ok. so its ok for the rest of this year. i am a little worried about having no protection for hitting rocks. also i am worried about trimming up to high and having the tilt cylinder try to lift the motor under load. so i am wondering if you or anyone has a tilt cylinder piston head with all 3 valves working they would be willing to sell me, or where to get one.

i am going to start a new thread to see if anyone has the part i need. i hope that is not against the rules. thanks again everyone for all of the help.

Re: t/t finally fixed, almost. EXPERTS PLEASE HELP

Your best bet is to either avoid hitting any logs & such in water or buy a used ram and take the parts you need. I don't think you'll ever find the piston by itself.