Just wondering whats the best thing to use to measuring the speed of the boat when wakeboarding. As unfortunatly my boat does not have perfect pass control.
Whenever someone is driving and im skiing they find it hard keeping the speed right either too fast or too slow. i estimate around 20mph to be prime but often the boat looses speed without the driver realising. And the speedos are pretty unreliable and mine never works half the time.
Is it worth investing in a marine gps device i know alot of friends who use these. But they cost a fortune. Is there any alternative
There is a technique to feathering the throttle. It takes some time to master and changes depending on the load in the boat. I also just installed a 4 blade prop and it helps my wife with speed control better than the 3 blade one we had.
I picked up an out-of-date model Humminbird depthfinder/GPS combo for $99 brand new. Works outstanding and has a display option where you can make HUGE numbers displaying speed and water temp only. Serves as the perfect speedometer.
Alternately, a cheap option would be any hand-held GPS with a basic MPH function. Easily under $100...maybe $50 for a used on on Ebay...plus another $10 to $20 for a dash mount that faces the driver. Again, set the display to show as large a MPH number as possible...most have such a setting.
to me it's more about the skill/concentration of the driver to maintain a constant speed than whatever gadgets you can come up with to measure it. On my old beater of a boat 19-20's the sweet spot. RPM for that speed is 2700-2800 depending on the load. My sister's '07 Maxum might be 22, yet another boat might be 18. It's just a matter of the rider letting the driver know what feels right and the driver constantly working the throttle to keep it there.
I throttle according to feel more than anything. I know what feels/sounds right, a glance at the speedo only verifies it. I would guesstimate I don't go 10 sec w/o making a throttle adjustment one way or the other. That's just how it is unless you have a tournament boat or auto speed control.
My brother is the only driver that's pulled me that can maintain an acceptable speed (almost) costantly, and he'd probably say the same about me. It's just a matter of knowing the boat and the importance of holding speed for a good ride. IMO it would be difficult for any driver other than a serious wakeboarder to understand the importance of consistent speed.
Just a side note here, I don't know what your running? but I found that a Stainless Steel prop works Best for holding your speed. It's almost like cruise control, compared to an aluminum one, because it doesn't flex.
I generally have my wife keep it around 17-22 MPH (2500 - 3200 RPM).
Depends on if I am working on surface tricks or trying to get air off of the wake.
I love having her get it up to about 25-27 MPH and cutting out real hard heelside (just every once in a whiel). Makes for some awesome spray
But, yeah I have usually seen 17-22 the best.
My cousin runs a 22' Malibu Wakesetter and we usually set the Perfect Pass for 21 MPH with that one.
I use the speedometer because I have to adjust the throttle as the boat goes back and forth between going on plane and off plane. I'm usually in the ocean with rough water (so somewhat slower at 18-20 mph) and a bunch of people in the back keeping the boat deeper in the water, making a big wake. A GPS also works, but you will want to compensate for the difference of the GPS speed and the speed relative to any water current. A water-based speedometer automatically accounts for the current.
I use my speedometer. My wife and I have phones with built-in GPS, which we have used a few times to verify the speedo. It's pretty darn close, so we generally stick with that.
But, as has been mentioned, KNOWING your speed, and MAINTAINING your speed are two completely different things.
It takes a good deal of practice and concentration to maintain a smooth, rideable speed...
Sounds like you're in the same situation as I am, where your other drivers need a bit more time behind the helm. Since I normally drive the boat all day, I can maintain speed pretty well most of the time. However, when it comes time for me to get out on the water, I find myself fluctuating between 13-27MPH!
GPS is the way to go. Fast updates, accurate speed. I can hold our boat +/- about a MPH on the GPS, the boat speedo will not even register the variance.
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The only thing I don't like about a GPS would probably be the fact that if you are on river or any water with a current, your GPS measures land movement and does not take into account the current speed.
Perfect Pass or any really decent speedo is well worth an upgrade.
I only use the factory and have seen it to be fairly accurate.
(I think all of this was stated before, but yeah...)
I also use a humminbird GPS for speed. My speedo is matched closely to the GPS up to 45 mph at which point my speedo says I'm goin faster than I really am. I can maintain 20-22mph for wake boarding relatively easy. I got alot of practice with the older beater I used to own. Now that I have more horsepower and a much heaviear boat that diminishes the relative force of the rider only small adjustments are neccessary. usually during a hard cut or after a sharp landing
You do not need to watch the speed, watch the wake, when it has a nice shape you are there. With more weight, you will need more speed to shape the wake.
The shape of the wake is important, true. But speed is just as important. The rider sinks if your going too slow and is more prone to injury if you have the boat moving too fast regardless of what what the wake looks like. If you have a Perfect Pass system, you can maintain any speed when you find the sweet spot of the wake. For those who don't, speed adjustments are often neccessary to accomodate the rider. Most good riders can cut or lower their center of gravity to do most of the work regarding line tightness but after a major slow down from a hard cut, they need a little help unless you have a near perfect boat. My boat and any other boat I've ever been in also throw the larger wakes at the lower speeds.
If you want a cheap GPS to tell you speed only, Get a Garmin Forerunner.
I use it for running, and it tells me speed. It also straps to your wrist, although it is water resistant, not water proof.
GPS is not the best thing to drive to - digital readouts and only updating once per second are not helpful.
Airguide speedos are a great low price option but a bit hard to come by. You need a speedo which shows great detail and accuracy between 12-40mph. Good airguides fetch $150 on ebay. I have them in kilometers per hour and may be able to refer you to a person who has them in MPH.
right - you're going to need accurate speed data down to a fraction of a second, because we all know we can adjust the speed of the boat with the same degree of precision.
Once a second?? I mean how could that POSSIBLY be a high enough sample rate.
This is just a silly debate IMO.
All the gadgetry in the world doesn't make a shi**in' bit of difference until we have marine engine technology that can respond similarly.
All it takes is a point of reference -- whether that's a target RPM, a target speed from the speedo, the gps or just an "OK" from the rider.
After that it's just a matter of the driver knowing how to control it.
I listen to the engine, I watch the wake in the rear view, I check the speedo, I check rpms. In the end, the easiest way to do it is by feel because you're not relying on any ONE thing to control the speed.
In my experience, people can't drive accurately enough for slalom course skiing when using a GPS for reference. Not even close. It is similar for other skiing tasks but not as bad. An airguide is massively better for slalom than a GPS.
Digital readouts have to be read. This number has to be compared to the speed you were doing before. This takes longer than seeing a dial has moved up or down a bit. You can't see trend, rate of change etc just current speed.
You can drive off a tacho and use GPS as a reference. This is generally better than driving off a GPS.
As far as "All the gadgetry in the world doesn't make a shi**in' bit of difference until we have marine engine technology that can respond similarly", well the gadgetry works in my boats and the marine technolgy does it all for me. I have Perfect Pass controlling the speed of my 225HO E-TEC (only E-TEC in the world with it).
That said, if I do have to drive by hand, give me an airguide over a GPS any day.
Very few drivers give a good ski or wake pull when they do it by feel even when looking at the wake and listening to the motor. I normally prefer a wife that has been trained to drive off the speedo than her husband that drives by feel. I'm not saying it can't be done well or that you can't do it well just that most people don't and most people are better off to have a useful speedo.
Excellent posts on both ends.
I think one thing to think about is the reaction time of the driver as well, if takes the driver a second or two to figure out they are going to fast or two slow, then a GPS would be fine. Since it updates every second, by the time the next number comes around, they should finally have registered to slow down.
I prefer RPM+Waterwheel Speedo verse most other things (when we aren't considering electronics that control the speed for you).
I've made two long winded (well, worded I guess) replies now, but I've been logged out on time so this one will be short.
I wasn't harsh, I was direct and to the point - maybe a little strong for your taste, but that's for you to deal with, not me
I think your "trend" and "rate of change" ideas are critical as far as using a speedometer with precision is concerned. Those are the types of things I meant by feel. I guess a better way to say it would just be to take everything into consideration rather than being focused on accurate measurement of speed.
A consistent speedo (doesn't even have to be accurate) is the primary reference but there are a lot of other things you can be aware of that will help you maintain speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghind
As far as "All the gadgetry in the world doesn't make a shi**in' bit of difference until we have marine engine technology that can respond similarly", well the gadgetry works in my boats and the marine technolgy does it all for me. I have Perfect Pass controlling the speed of my 225HO E-TEC (only E-TEC in the world with it).
I'm going on the premise that we're excluding perfect pass -- I mentioned above "unless you have auto speed control."
What do you guys use for speed ??
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