outboard wont stop cranking

abbotm5

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So i went to start up my 96 force 120 and when I turned the key to the off position to choke the motor it did not stop trying to start. Then I tried the emergency shut off and the didnt do anything. Finally I just took off the battery connections. Also, when I pulled off the cover to the powerhead there was smoke in it. I originally was thinking there may be a short in the key ignition, but the smoke confuses me. Could that come from runnning the starter too long? how would I know if the starter is now shot?
 

maxum247

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

So i went to start up my 96 force 120 and when I turned the key to the off position to choke the motor it did not stop trying to start. Then I tried the emergency shut off and the didnt do anything. Finally I just took off the battery connections. Also, when I pulled off the cover to the powerhead there was smoke in it. I originally was thinking there may be a short in the key ignition, but the smoke confuses me. Could that come from runnning the starter too long? how would I know if the starter is now shot?

Starter solenoid may have stuck on, so the solenoid could be bad or the key switch may have failed.
If you have a manual there should be a test for the ignition switch and starter solenoid to see if there good .
If no manual use the search button at the top of the page and see what you find on each one there.
 

eurolarva

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

One option to try when and if this happens again is to get the motor out of neutral. The neutral interlock will loose its voltage and should stop the starter if the solenoid is working correctly. With battery disconnected I would use an ohm meter and test between the two big lugs on the solenoid. If you read near zero ohms the solinoid is bad. If it is infinite then it is somewhere before the solenoid. Chances are you smoked your starter. They get real hot real fast and if it was continuously spinning there is a good chance damage was done to it.
 

abbotm5

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

I have a manual and just need some clarification as to what I am trying to test here. I tested between a red/yellow wire and ground, but now that I have my manual I see two red/yellow wires, one to the starter and one to the ignition (not sure which one I tested), so I need to test again. From the diagram in the manual though Im thinking I should have tested from the positive battery connection to the wire that goes to the starter. Is the main purpose of the starter solenoid to supply the positive voltage to the starter? Thanks for the help.
 

maxum247

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

The purpose of the starter solenoid is to make a positive contact to the starter when the key is turned, in turn cranking the engine, when the key is released the positive contact is broken, which sometimes may not happen and the engine keeps cranking.
Sounds like you may of had a solenoid go bad.
 

eurolarva

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

The solenoid will either have 3 or 4 connections. A lot of them have a body ground so when you hook it to the motor the metal on the motor creates the ground or the same as the black wire on the battery. If it has a body ground there will only be 3 connections. If you look at the bottom pic this has a body ground that is why I have the black wire from the battery charger connected to the solinoid mounting hole. The positive lead on the battery charger is connected to the small lug on the solinoid and this is where the power comes from your ignition switch through the neutral interlock switch and to the solinoid. If you take a multi meter or DVM and put it on ohms or resistance and touch the two lugs with the nuts on it there should be no ohms. It will read like no load, I for infinate or something with no zeros in it. When you turn the battery charger on the meter will read real close to zero ohms more like 0.04 ohms. If this happens the solinoid is good and chances are your problem is elsewhere. When you turn the battery charger off the ohms should go back to infinate or No load.

solinoid1.jpg
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

The solenoid is basically an electomagnetically activated high current switch--just like the tilt relays only much heavier duty.

Power is voltage times amperage. So since the starter motor is a 12 volt motor, it must draw a lot of amps to make sufficient power to turn over the engine.

The starter produces at least 1 horsepower at stall speed. That's a lot from a small motor. When the starter motor is energised, it instantaneously draws so much current (amps) that battery voltage drops to about 9 volts. I never measured it but I'll bet the amperage draw is at least 50 and probably closer to 100. That's why it heats up so fast.

You can not put this kind of power through an ignition switch without melting the wires and possibly the switch contacts. There would also be current loss by using such a long run of wire to the switch and back to the starter, and this amount of power is dangerous to have under the dashboard.

So a small current at 12 volts is sent from the switch to the small terminals on the solenoid. This energises an internal electromagnet (solenoid, from which the switch gets its name) which closes the silver or copper high current contacts inside the solenoid, delivering power directly from the battery to the starter. The size and material of the contacts make them able to handle such high current.

Of course, putting that much current through the contacts can cause them to spark. Occasionally, this sparking will weld them together and the solenoid will not open. More often, the sparking causes oxidation which insulates the contact surfaces and then the solenoid will close, but no current will flow.

Your solenoid contacts probably welded together, and the only way of stopping the starter was to remove the battery terminal--either positive or negative--preferably positive, in case there were redundant grounds which would cause wiring damage.
 

maxum247

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

I am trying to find the replacement solenoid in the iboats marine store, but the solenoid they have is serial number 89-817109A2, while mine reads 89-817109A1. Does anyone know the difference between these two parts? The outboard is a 1996 force 120hp. The link to the part in the store is

http://www.iboats.com/mall/partfind...s=force starter solenoid&**********=325163057

I beleive according to Eurolarva's previous post some solenoids have three post and some have four. That may be the difference in the part number.
 

eurolarva

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

Mercury part number is 89-817109A3 and cost is around 50 bucks

 

abbotm5

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Jan 18, 2008
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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

So I got the starter solenoid and put it in today. The motor only starts cranking when the key is turned to the start position, but the outboard wont start up. I still have the starter that started smoking on the outboard. Is it possible that the starter will still crank, but be damaged enough to not start the outboard?
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

Yes, It is possible, but not likely because the starter motor only turns the flywheel. It has nothing to do with the ignition.

HOWEVER: The ignition system is like a magneto in operation and just like a magneto, the slower the engine is turning, to poorer the spark will be.

So, if the starter motor is damaged to the point where it turns the engine over significantly slower than normal, the spark--while present-- may not be robust enough to fire the engine.

First thing to do would be to clean or replace the spark plugs and check for spark, then see what happens.
 

abbotm5

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

I will definately check the spark plugs. I dont know how big of a problem that would be though. I just put this motor on this year and put new plugs in it. The plugs havent run more than 15 hours.

Sounds like your thoughts are that it is probably not the starter though since its cranking. I'll try to at least clean the plugs to get a better spark to see if it will at least start up. Thanks for the help. I'll post again after I clean em up.
 

eurolarva

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

This may seem stupid but make sure you push the key into choke the motor when you try to start it. Most new people are not aware of an electric choke and how it works. Push key in and hold it while turning it to the start postition. Disengage the choke when the motor starts.
 

abbotm5

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

I replaced the spark plugs and still couldnt get the motor to start, but I did notice that when I tilt it up gas drips out of the carburators. Is there anyway to drain them easily? Would gas continue to build up in them while trying to start the motor?
 

eurolarva

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

gas dripping out of carbs when it is tilted is common and does not mean anything is wrong. By turning the motor over 45 degrees it puts too much burden on the float and needle which will allow gas to flow. If you want to drain the carbs you just need to remove the nut on the bottom of the float bowl.
 

abbotm5

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

Would too much gas in the carbs be a reason for the motor not to start? Before this whole solenoid getting stuck thing the motor ran great, now I cant get it to start. I have replaced the plugs and when I try to start the boat the motor cranks, it just wont fire up.
 

abbotm5

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Re: outboard wont stop cranking

I just tested the motor some more. I put a voltmeter from ground to the plug of the spark plug and I was getting 10 volts. Is that a good voltage? I thought it would be higher.
 
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