Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

After trying everything to get my 1985 Force 85 to run reliably, I am now thinking of adding a 2-4 psi electric fuel pump. The question is, where should I install it? Should I put it between the tank and ball ( I have heard that these pumps are pushers not pullers ) or, do they pull enough to install it inside the engine cowl as a header pump for the diaphram?

The problem I am having is my engine goes lean periodically and I have to pump the ball after it loses its prime. During the first hour of operation, you have to do this often. After that, it happens periodically when I try to accelerate. Some times it will not do it for a couple of hours.

Compression is 150 on all three cylinders, plugs were changed twice, carbs torn down cleaned and reset, all fuel lines and return lines changed, all tanks cleaned and new fittings installed, fuel pump changed twice, check valves changed once, fuel pump orfice holes cleaned and blown clear, stator windings, cdi and coils checked and eliminated.

So now it is time for a electic fuel pump. Please don't give me a lecture about connecting it so it runs with the key on. There is no option as 2 stroke engines don't have an oil pressure transmitter.

Thanks for any suggestions,

John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

My 89 125 did the same thing, drove me crazy for about two months, with help I found out it was the pickup tube screen in my built in tank, it was picking up trash in the tank and blocking the fuel flow causing the bulb to loose prime at random and causing the problem your having.
Stop and pump the ball up and it would go again, it would be alright for awhile and when the conditions were right, and vacuum on the pickup tube was enough it would block it up again and the ball would loose prime, stop to idle and the trash would fall away, lack of vacuum on pickup tube.
Once the tank and screen were cleared of trash no more problem, ball stays tight and engine run's fine.

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

Max247,

Thanks for your input but I cleaned and resealed all three of my tanks. They have no rust, varnish or other crap and the screens are all clear.

John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

"Should I put it between the tank and ball ( I have heard that these pumps are pushers not pullers ) or, do they pull enough to install it inside the engine cowl as a header pump for the diaphram?"

THat all depends on where you want to risk having a fuel spill.
Where are you least likely to get a spark and go boom, in the bilge or under the cowl?

The fuel system losing prime would indicate an air leak, somewhere.

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

I have not been able to find any air leak. All lines, pump and gaskets are sealed with Hylomar.

Regards,

John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

Did you change the squeeze ball? I have put on new squeezeies and they were bad out of the box(Tempo).If you put in a fuel pump put it where the coast guard won't find it(unless it's a marine pump)down by the tank.Then you wont need a squeeze ball.Jerry

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

I hear you! frustrating, isn't it?

I have trouble feeding my Chrysler 140 (twin diaphragm pumps will not supply its needs at full throttle) and I bought one of those pumps. Instructions say to mount it no higher than 1 foot above the bottom of the gas tank. I, however, intend to mount it under the cowl right next to the shift and throttle cables (about 2 feet) --to experiment and hope that it will self prime. If it doesn't work well, then I will move it to just above the tank.

I also intend to run it off the ignition switch so it will not be on unless the engine is supposed to be running. However, I intend to run a signal wire from the ignition switch to a relay next to the pump to reduce the load the switch must carry.

Problem is I don't have a round tuit. When I get a round tuit, I will let you know whether it works.

By the way, It is my own damn fault that the engine is so thirsty: It is overbored --I think I went .030-- is ported, has been re-jetted a tad richer, and has a 2 to 1 lower unit. I don't know exactly how much horsepower it puts out but it pushes my 21 foot cuddy at 38 GPS through a 13 X 19 Michigan Stainless, when it gets enough fuel.
Next step will be higher compression and better reeds. Trying to get to 40.

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

Jerry, the squeeze ball was changed, twice just in case.

Frank, I'm inclined to try the cowl location also as a feed to the engine pump. The engine pump is working to a degree so I am hoping that a little positive pressure will cure the problem. If I have to, I will move it to my tank well area. My bilge pump must be spark protected as I had vented fuel in the bilge a couple of times when I used it and it didn't blow me all to hell! I have since stopped filling my tanks to capacity.

BTW, I have hit 40 at 5000 with only me in the boat so it can do it when it wants to. I am not too interested in speed with gas at $4 a gallon. I just do not want it to quit when I am in the Main Chesapeake channel with a cigarette boat on my six or in "ego alley" in Annapolis just as I turn towards a million dollar toy!!!

Regards,

John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

Know what you mean! I went down to "Ego Alley" a few years ago. Memorial Day weekend. What the hell was I thinking? It was like the Schuylkill expressway (or down there I suppose I 95) at rush hour. DANG!

I have a panoramic photo of the bay--horizon to horizon looking out from the mouth of the Severgn--wall to wall boats. No time for marginal performance there.

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

Frank,

I made the mistake of taking my father in law out on Memorial Day this year. I put in at Sandy Point and decided to take him for a ride up the Severn.

First I had to get through the sail boats, then I had to avoid the sight seeing boats and then I had to get in line to go up the river! After passing the academy, I saw a opening and did a quick 180 and got out of there fast.

Sometimes we really ought to listen to our wives when they ask " are you sure you want to do that today?"

On another note, I tried to get out three times on Saturday. The fog kept shifting back and forth and I kept losing the bridge. Even the Coast Guard aux. stayed in the lagoon for the better part of the day. Hopefully, Friday will be better.

Regards,
John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

Frank,

Replacing the three check valves in the fuel pump body cured all my problems. I guess on the plus side I can say I now have a rebuilt fuel system from the tank up when I really only needed the $15 valves. Oh well, that's boating!

John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

John,

you've helped me out this last week on my Force. Does any body know the parts numbers for the check valves?

My wife tried at our local boat shop to purchase, she was uncerimoniously told that they don't make parts for that motor anymore! this was from the same bloke who sold her 2 fibre washers when i asked for a crush ring! I gues anyone with a problem on an old motor has to dump it and buy a new one! LOL.

i have tried looking through the listings on here but i think the checks are out fo stock!

any ideas?

I am also interested in fitting a fuel pump retro fit on the motor 85 85hp Force, Bayliner 16' cuddy. can the original pump be bypassed and retrofitted to electric?

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

The diaphram for the pump is F438747 you need one.

The check valves are F177330, you need three.

Total price for both runs about $22 or so.

Try dougrussell.com, mercruiserparts.com, boats.net

It is dangerous and maybe illegal to rig an electric pump on an outboard. The reason is that the pump will keep running regardless of the engine condition. Additionally, if you break a line, the engine will shut off but the pump will keep pumping fuel into a hot cowling.

Stick with the two stage pump you have on the engine. They work well for the application.

John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

Point taken John!

I work on crushers and i can see the safety issues regarding this.

i managed to find the replacements on line. Hopefully they arrive this week and i am out on it for 3 days solid this weekend (loving this Bayliner right now).

i have had a reply about retro fitting the 125 HP pump to the 85HP, they say the check valves never stick on these and the re build kits come with the check valves included.

I do think i am trying to re-invent the wheel at times, so this will be a winter try-out/project.

Cheers John,

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

pnwboat modifed his with a newer model engine part. If you can find the cover cheap enough, it is easy to do.

John

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

ok so i also have a 85 Froce that i have to do impeller. tstat,lower lube and plugs and fuel pump (for my own peace of mind) so you can adapt a 125 fuel pump? what all is needed and where do i order from online? and is there a best place to get the part cheap?

Re: Where to install fuel pump on Force 85

The hardest part is finding a cylinder cover for the fuel pump. This are usually not available anymore even though the fuel pump parts are.

If you can find a cover, then you need to order the fuel pump body and internal parts. You can find fuel pumps cheap on Ebay but cylinder port covers are hard to find.

John