Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

bugeyestp · Apr 17, 2008

Last June I installed the Tie Down SS Disc brakes(unfortunately) I now wish that I installed Kodiaks vented. What happened? I removed residual valve from surge master cylinder, I installed everything correctly. yet after several 15 mi jogs to the local docks and 1 trip at 100 Mi away, the pads are metal on metal tearing up the rotors.

I've had trouble keeping bearing caps on

Are there over the counter replacement pads?
Bearings to tight to loose?
Disc overheated?
Im lost, Any help would be appreciated!!!
Thankyou...

bruceb58 · Apr 17, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Join the club!

I had same problem after around 1000 miles. My theory is that they overheated and warped. This causes your excessive wear. I changed mine out to Kodiaks after this happened.

I also had trouble keeping Bearing Buddies on. I was very disappointed as well.

CatTwentyTwo · Apr 17, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

My first thought was the residual valve, but you removed that. If it was just one wheel, I would suspect a sticking caliper. If both wheels have the same wear, that would lead me back to something in the coupler. You might try loosening a bleeder valve to see if somehow there is pressure being maintained in the line. I am surprised that you did not see smoke or fire with that kind of extreme wear. I am happy with my Kodiak's, but I am not to sure that they would be the answer to your problem.

Boatist · Apr 18, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

I am not sure if you are a salt water boater but I also had the same trouble.
My problem was both pistons on both calipers froze up and looks like from salt corrozion. You can get new pads at West Marine off the shelf but before you do jack up a wheel and see if you can turn the tire. In my case just barely could turn. I pulled the calipers and could not even push the calipers back with a large C Clamp. Like a dummy I replaced the calipers. Time was short before our vacation so I took the easy way out.

I am a salt water boater and wash the brakes every time I pull the boat but do have to admit do not wash after a launch.

Sound like everyone happy with the kodiak breaks. Kodiak has many models which one does everyone have.

Tie Down also have vented rotors now also but they have had there chance. I never was happy with the amount of drag on the rotors. after applying the brakes. Even when bleeding just left too much drag on the rotors.

bruceb58 · Apr 18, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Only one out of 4 of mine had the problem. The rotor on the one that failed became very rough.

I use a electric/hydraulic controller for my system. One advantage I have is that I know that when I take my foot off the brake pedal, the brakes are not being actuated. With a surge brake system, all bets are off. If you are going down a long grade and using the transmission to slow you down, the trailer brakes may be on slightly which could cause them to heat up. This is the disadvantage of disc over drum. With disc, slight pressure will cause them to drag. With drum, slight pressure won't over come the springs so the shoes won't be touching the drum.

bugeyestp · Apr 18, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Thanks to everyone for the input. I will take these apart and see if the is anything that I can find.I will keep this thread posted as to my progress..
Boat hard but Boat Safe!!!

bruceb58 · Apr 18, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

You should measure the runout on the disc if you can. I bet there is a chance you have a warp. I found out after I bought these that they are famous for it. The problem is that they make the discs by taking a huge circular piece of stainless and cut slices of it off to make the disc. I am not a mechanical engineer but I have heard that the grain structure in the metal of these discs cause them to severely warp when they get hot. You also can't turn them...not that you would want to because once a discs warps, the warp will always come back even after you turn them. Back when i was thinking about keeping them, I was considering having the discs drilled to at least get a little more cooling effect.

dingbat · Apr 19, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

I had a similar experience on my first conversion to disc brakes. After I got things resolved I replaced the pads every 3 years instead of every three trips.

First off, you said you removed the residual valve put did you drill out the brass tube adaptor at the back of the coupler are well? The adapter must be drilled out to at least 1/16” diameter or lease the pads will not retract fully from the discs.

How well did you bleed them? If you have the least little bit of air in the lines the pads will not retract fully and the pads don’t last long after that.

The other problem I’ve seen is backing up. Do you have a braking solenoid or do you manually lock out the coupler? It doesn’t take more than a few times backing up without the coupler locked out to destroy a set of pads.

As far as the brearing caps are conceenrend I've see two problems surface. The first is that your cotter pins are too long. Make sure that they are not touching the inside walls of the hub.

The second is excessive end play in your wheel berings. If you have too much end play I've seen the caps just walk themselves right out of the hub for some reason. Don't know but it does.

bugeyestp · Apr 20, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Thankyou Dingbat that is some good detailed info.
I was manually lockingout the surge. yeah I know I am installing a reverse lockout shortly. as for the drilling the copper adapter I did not know a bout that. and it is possible that I didn't tighten bearing enough. thankyou after I get these repairs done I will post. hopefully my rotors are not warped. Dingbat do you have the same brakes as I? if my rotors are warped i'm considering switchin to Kodiaks. If I had these issues resolved would the brakes last. or should I upgrade...? ?
Thanks......

bruceb58 · Apr 20, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

I have never heard anything about drilling out anything to convert a drum master cylinder to disc use. All you should have to do is to remove the residual valve. As a test, jack up a wheel and manually apply the brakes with the breakaway lever. Release the lever and spin the wheel. If you have residual pressure in the system, you will not be able to spin the wheel freely.

http://www.championtrailers.com/remove_residual_valve.htm

dingbat · Apr 21, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

bruceb58 said:
I have never heard anything about drilling out anything to convert a drum master cylinder to disc use. All you should have to do is to remove the residual valve. As a test, jack up a wheel and manually apply the brakes with the breakaway lever. Release the lever and spin the wheel. If you have residual pressure in the system, you will not be able to spin the wheel freely.

http://www.championtrailers.com/remove_residual_valve.htm

It's in the instructions with the actuator and it's listed on the Champion website as well.

Bottom of the page

http://www.championtrailers.com/DISC_BRAKE_INSTALLATION_ARTICLE.HTM

bruceb58 · Apr 21, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Yep...I see that now.

You would think that there would be less fluid flow in a disc system than a drum system since the caliper pistons are not moving much at all and you wouldn't need to make such a mod.

darrklim2 · Apr 21, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

bruceb58 said:
Yep...I see that now.

You would think that there would be less fluid flow in a disc system than a drum system since the caliper pistons are not moving much at all and you wouldn't need to make such a mod.

The pistons move less but are of a larger diameter usually.

CatTwentyTwo · Apr 21, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

I read the Champion website when I was researching disc brakes. When I converted to Kodiak disc's several years ago, I also purchased a new Attwood disc brake coupler. The first thing that I noticed was how small the orifice was, I don't think that it is over .020 in diameter. I immediately called Attwood to ask them about it and they do not agree with Champion's thinking. I did not drill the orifice out and have had no problems at all with the brakes.

tommays · Apr 21, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Well

The orifice size has more to do with how fast the brakes react as with surge brakes if they come on to fast and hard causing wheel lock your pretty screwed when the trailer starts trying to pass you

Boatist · Apr 23, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Was reading up on brakes a couple of weeks ago before I checked my brakes this year. My Tie Downs are good this spring, but one thing I noticed was the new Tie Down vented Disc Brakes have a single Piston in the caliper. Also Tie Downs info said the vented brakes retracted the pads more than the old brakes. Something to do with the rubber around the piston. Also they are more like a car in that to pull the caliper do not have to remove the HUB and disc. Also they use standard auto brake pads. I think it was a ford car.

Checking the Kodiaks I think they had 4 types in the 5 bolt pattern. Each one up more expensive. The Stainless Steel was pretty high. Just wonder which model Kodiaks every chose and do you think they are better?

bugeyestp · Apr 23, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

When I first installed my disc brakes, they worked so good that it stopped as good as the pickup would by itself. I thought then that they were to tight. If my disc aren't warped then hopefully drilling the diameter of that fitting and replaceing the pads, along with a reverselockout should do the trick.. I hope...

SuperNova · Apr 23, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

I installed a set of 12" Kodiac vented on my dual axle 10,000 lb gross weight trailer 2 years ago. I modified the drum brake actuator by dirving a punch through the residual valve and drilling out the brass adapter to 1/8". I have been very happy with the set-up and only had one problem. The left rear caliper piston failed (the stainless wrap split off the aluminum piston), but with one call to Kodiac, they sent me all new parts. Very good customer service in my opinion. Now the system is 100% and I've already towed over 150 miles this year. By the way, I live in Pa. and EVERYTHING is either uphill or downhill and stopping a 9000 lb rig can be challenging to say the least. Excellent brakes are a must.
--
Stan

bugeyestp · Apr 26, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

OK I have started taking these brakes apart and here is what I have/
Tie Down ss 10inch discs/
In Full Backyard Mechanic Effect,
1) I c clamped a straight edge to the leafspring so it was touching the rotor, spinning the rotors to the point at which it was not touching the straight edge to check if the rotor are warped and yes the are not perfectly straight, 1 is off by .011 and the other is off by .021.... hopefully somone knows what I am talking about.
Is the a minimum reccommended measurment for this, These were not perfect when i put them on new, I assumed the were just "what I get" when you purchase the cheapest ss discs on the market and assummed they were within minimum requirements..
Do I need to replace them?

2) The copper fitting on the back of the master cylinder I drilled out to 7/32, hopefully that is large enough for 5k# with two axle trailer with 1 axle of brakes!
any comments?
3) The bleeders I can't get to break loose and I broke 1 an broke an easyout on it, I need to get 1 out intact so I can get the right tap
Any suggestions on breaking them loose without breaking them, heat,or what?
Thankyou for any help thanks

dingbat · Apr 27, 2008

Re: Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

Boatist said:
Was reading up on brakes a couple of weeks ago before I checked my brakes this year. My Tie Downs are good this spring, but one thing I noticed was the new Tie Down vented Disc Brakes have a single Piston in the caliper. Also Tie Downs info said the vented brakes retracted the pads more than the old brakes. Something to do with the rubber around the piston. Also they are more like a car in that to pull the caliper do not have to remove the HUB and disc. Also they use standard auto brake pads. I think it was a ford car.

Checking the Kodiaks I think they had 4 types in the 5 bolt pattern. Each one up more expensive. The Stainless Steel was pretty high. Just wonder which model Kodiaks every chose and do you think they are better?

I had the Tiedowns on my last trailer and after resolving the problems I noted above I had good service from them.

My latest trailer had the Tiedowns on it when I got it. All was good until this spring when I broke the bleed screw off one of the calipers and decided to give the Kodiaks a try.

I purchased the Silver Cadmium and upgraded to metallic pads for good luck. When they arrived the first thing I noticed was the weight. They are heavy. The calipers are beefy and well built and the rotors weigh a ton.

I've put roughly 800-900 miles on them since I installed them back in March and they still look like new. It's still too early for the final verdict but the Kodiaks has impressed me so far.

I'll probably install a set on the second axle before the season is over.

Tie Down SS Disc Brakes, wore out after 400 mi

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