settling an arguement

J

jethro66

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Hey guys, Is 50 to 1 safe for a 59 18 hp. johnson or is 24 to1 the right mix? I say its 24 to 1 did I win my bet?
 
jbjennings

jbjennings

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Re: settling an arguement

I can't remember. If it is a 2-line system with pressure tank it's 24:1, if not it's 50:1. Which is it?:)
JBJ
 
jbjennings

jbjennings

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Re: settling an arguement

But I will say that I have been very attentive to the points made by others on the forum that know volumes more about outboards that were made before I was born and they say that some of the outboards made about the time as the one you're arguing about have the same types of bearings and such as the ones that OMC says its o.k. to use 50:1 on. So I think you would be better off not arguing(like I would probably do) and just do whatever you think is best. Myself, I like to do what the factory says do. And I believe they say use 24:1 on it. Some other folks say that the new TCW-3 oil is much better than the SAE 30 oil from the 50's and therefore makes it safe to use in even earlier 24:1 motors. ........Food for thought.:)
Later,
JBJ
 
tashasdaddy

tashasdaddy

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Re: settling an arguement

24-1 if you want it to run another 50 years.
 
cbavier

cbavier

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Re: settling an arguement

tashasdaddy said:
24-1 if you want it to run another 50 years.
Click to expand...

I AGREE 24-1. I've had both a 1957 Johnson 24-1 and a 1973 Johnson 50-1. I don't think the 50-1 came out until the early 70's.

If you really want to know for sure, find a manual. There are a lot of online manuals and there may be one for that motor available rather than taking someone's word for it. Unless someone on the forum has a like motor.

As far as your argument it probably depends how much money is at stake and how bad the other person wants to push it to prove you wrong. I'd say though that your the winner.
 
D

Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
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Re: settling an arguement

Depends on which oil you use. SAE 30 - 24:1. TCW type - 50:1. Just don't switch back & forth. If you go to TCW III, stay with it.
 
cc67

cc67

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Re: settling an arguement

Someone made the point once that non-thermostat motors should run a 24:1 mix.
 
Joe Reeves

Joe Reeves

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Re: settling an arguement

The condition that exists which allows or does not allow the use of the 50/1 mixture depends on whether the engine incorporates needle, roller, and/or ball bearings upon all of its moving/rotating parts.

The 1959 18hp Evinrude/Johnson, models 15028, 15029 and FD-13 incorporates the above type bearings in the top, center, and bottom main bearings, connecting rod to crankshaft bearings, and the wrist pin bearing (all moving/rotating areas).

This engine can safely use the 50/1 mixture.


Oh.... And by the way Jethro, you lose. Pay the man.
 
jay_merrill

jay_merrill

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Re: settling an arguement

Great and informed answer, Joe! The modern synthetic and semi-synthetic oils are really good products which far exceed the performance characteristics of the natural products available in the 50s and 60s. As long as the internals of the specific engine permit their use at 50:1, I say go for it!
 
JB

JB

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Re: settling an arguement

While I don't disagree with Joe Reeves, who has forgotten more about JohnnyRudes than I will ever know, I am still inclined to not second guess the guys who designed and built them.

The Johnson Service Manual, Tenth Edition, Page 81, second paragraph:
Our Engineering Department has, after long research and evaluation developed a ratio of 1 part oil to 24 parts gasoline by volume as best suited for the efficient lubrication of Johnson motors and economy of operation.

It goes on for another page explaining the risks of using any other ratio and the damage that may occur. Then, on page 82, at the end of the section on Lubrication and Fuel Blending, it adds this note:

NOTE
"Starting with 1964 motors, Johnson's recommended oil and gasoline mixture is 1 part oil to 50 parts gasoline. Before the 50:1 mixture can be used, the recommended break-in procedure must be followed using the 24:1 mixture."

Being the grandson of an engineer and philosopher, I was told many times that when an engineer tells you how to maintain and use his/her designed product there are many factors that affect those instructions that are beyond the user or technician understanding.

What Joe explains seems to me to make sense, but if Johnson manufactured engines that they believed could be safely run on 50:1 before 1964, why did they specifically exclude them in the Service Manual?

So, in conclusion, if it is a 1957 Johnson, use 24:1.
 
jay_merrill

jay_merrill

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Re: settling an arguement

I guess my thought about those words is that it is important to know when they were written. If the information is many years old, it doesn't reflect current synthetic oil technology.
 
Joe Reeves

Joe Reeves

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Re: settling an arguement

Then at a later point in time, it was recommended by an engineer or engineers that various engines could use a 100/1 ratio. We all know the route that mixture took and why.

Once while on vacation and touring a glass factory, I saw a engineer drilling small holes in a vacuum line of a machine that screwed caps on bottles. I asked what he was doing. He replied with a smug how dare you speak to me expression on his face that he was adjusting the vacuum on the machine. I replied that it would be better to drill a large hole, big enough to install a needle valve assembly where the vacuum could be adjusted as needed simply by turning the needle valve in or out. Fearing that by the change in the shade of his face that it would soon catch on fire, I quickly walked away.

Bottom line.... Engineers line of thought, their designs, conclusions, their final assesments are not always set in stone, and I happen to disagree with a few of them.
 
J

jethro66

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Re: settling an arguement

Thank-you every-one for replying.Butt... I'm not paying. I guess every-one is right.
 
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