Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Hi eveyone,

I am new to the forum and am seeking some advice on buying my first boat. I am look for something like the Bayliner Capri 17 ft but found out from members on here that the late 80's and early 90's of bayliner are no good, the material sucks. My question is what is other company that makes similar boat like Bayliner Capri but with a stronger/better material.

I will mainly use for the boat for fishing and some water spots. My budge is aroun $3500.00 and i prefer outboard. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

WELCOME TO I BOATS

i have a capri and i agree with what youve heard...

but my other boat is a sea ray....and i love it.....(or at least did...well see in may ).....sorry inside i boats joke there.


there is a lot of good used boats out there...and a lot of junk...

but your in the right place....keep reading..!...the more you arm yourself with knowlage the better your purchase will be....use the search button look for key words... rot...transom...stringers.....aluminium...
and down below...on the forum main page.....way down is a blue area with manufactureres names on it....click the manufacturer you want and there is another forum there all on that kind of boat!

keep checking craigs list ...and for the right boat be prepaired to drive a ways.....i was crazy enough to drive 2200 miles.

take a probe and a drill with you ...and some 5200 with you to repair the holes you make after you say no "thank you"

hope that helps
cheers
oops

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Tons of boats that fit your description. Brands FAR are less important on 15+ yr. old boats than how well it was cared for. All older boats could have shot interiors, rotten floors/stringers/transom, spent engines, etc. You just need to be very selective and find one that was well cared for regardless of brand.

It is true that all else being equal, the materials used in a bayliner from 1990 era are lower quality than more expensive boats, however you have the BIG advantage of seing their condition NOW! So, if a Bayliner or whatever brand has a nice interior, hull and engine then it's good (assuming it's good under the deck as well)!

Read threads about used boats all over this forum. That will help you find what to watch out for! In a 17' bowrider type boat you can do pretty well for $3500-$4k. Again, look for a great $4k boat, not a $3K boat that needs work - the work always is far more than what can be seen!

Also, if you don't know what to look for, before buying have a mechanic check the engine for you. Most of the value of an older used boat this size is the engine.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

welcome to iboats. the bayliners were not bad boats, they were beginner boats, and most people who bought them, had no idea how to care for a boat. not bad boat, bad owners. though all you had to do was gas them up and go, never cover them, or do maintanance.

Buying a boat

1st you need to decide what you want to use it for, fishing, cruising, or water sports.

2nd how many people adults, children you want on board of the average outing.

3rd outboard, inboard-outboard, or inboard power plant.

4th Budget, what you want to pay, and what you are willing to pay, when you find
Exactly what you want.

You can hire a marine surveyor, to inspect the boat, or you can do it yourself.

You are mainly looking for soft spots in the deck, transom, cracks, all signs of a rotten, under frame.

The motor should be clean, no spots where the paint is discolored, or pealing from heat, having run hot. Compression should be atleast 100psi, and within 10% of each other,
Spark on all cylinders, good pee stream, check lower unit for water in oil.

The overall condition of the boat will tell you a lot, as to how it has been maintained.

A 30 year old boat motor combo, may be in better condition, than a 3 year old.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

tash, I know you provide LOTS of good advice here and I appreciate that, but I think you are not correct with your frequent defense of older Bayliner runabouts. YES, I agree the way the owner cared for the boat is the #1 factor on it's current condition. However, I have looked at a lot of 1985-1990 Bayliners and when compared to most more expensive brands there are SPECIFIC shortcomings that have contributed to the reputation Bayliner had of a less than high-quality runabout boat.

1. Screws coming lose where bolts were used by others. So years later most things are falling off or lose. No the case with better made, more costly boats of the same age.
2. Pourous deck which allowed lots of water seepage into foam (yes, many others also on this one).
3. The least durable vinyl available, IMO. Sun ruined it, water, salt, you name it. It is easy to feel the low quality fabric vs. good stuff.
4. Seat cushion materials - I re-did all my cushions (re-used all the 20+ yr. old vinyl, still in great shape!) on my Mark Twain boat so I know there is cheap, average and expensive foam out there. bayliners either had all fat people sitting on them or the foam was crap because it is totally useless in ALL the older Bayliner runabouts I've sat in.
5. Sprayed glass in the stringer system and very limited stringer support. Again, I've seen several with the deck torn off and you NEED the foam to support the deck because they put such a cheap stringer system in! Also the seat bottoms are sprayed right into the stringer system to save time/money but create a mess.

I only wrote this post because I think it is not accurate to ignore the fact that different boat makers produced different quality boats, especially in the 1980-1990 time period. AGAIN, I agree that proper care makes a ton of difference, but it is NOT the only factor. I know you are a BIG fan of the newer Bayliner runabouts, that's fine and maybe very accurate. However, please don't let that influence your advise to those buying older used runabouts.

If I was looking and found a used Bayliner in great shape for a good price I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. However, I'd expect more often than not a 1985-1990 Bayliner will have some issues relating to how cheaply it was made and NOT just to poor care. Boats get wet! They see sun! That's what they're for. ANY Bayliner I've seen from that era with extensive use has very worn faded seats at best, totally spent foam cushions and either lose fittings OR they've been replaced already. Nearly all also have a soft floor - but I'll concede that many other brands have this issue also.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

.... i'll be sure to put a match to mine next week before someone gets killed. i'd do it this week but the fish are jumping.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

jeruhmee said:

Hi eveyone,

I will mainly use for the boat for fishing and some water spots. My budge is aroun $3500.00 and i prefer outboard. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!

Click to expand...

Fish 'n Ski's are generally hard to come by, they are very much in demand, and untill the turn of the century, they were typically either a bass boat with a walk through windshield or a runnabout with a trolling motor.

If you can afford it stay away from anything with a Force brand outboard on it. NEVER buy a Bayliner with an L-Drive, easy to spot because it looks like the powerhead of an outboard inside and looks like the bottom end of an outboard sticking out of the bottom of the boat.

My favorite older Fiberglass runnabout is a Glastron. If it was taken care of, you cannot go wrong. There were many nice older Starcraft's out there but generally bigger and harder to fish out of. There are more nice ones, but I don't have the time to elaborate.

JOhn

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Thank you for your input. Could someone explain to me what is L-drive or force motor. Also i got a question regarding motor, do you guys prefer outboard or inboard in terms of reliability, cost of maintenance, and fuel efficiency. I know bigger boat requires inboard and that inboard is heavier however members here say that outboard breaks down more often and they are expensive to fix. I tried to search on here but dont seem to find any comparison between different motors.

If my budget is around $3500, should i be looking for a boat with an outboard or inboard? Thank you very much guys!!!

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

jeruhmee said:

Thank you for your input. Could someone explain to me what is L-drive or force motor. Also i got a question regarding motor, do you guys prefer outboard or inboard in terms of reliability, cost of maintenance, and fuel efficiency. I know bigger boat requires inboard and that inboard is heavier however members here say that outboard breaks down more often and they are expensive to fix. I tried to search on here but dont seem to find any comparison between different motors.

If my budget is around $3500, should i be looking for a boat with an outboard or inboard? Thank you very much guys!!!

Click to expand...

.. here are a couple informative threads that may explain what you seek.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1558657#post1558657

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=155022&highlight=ldrive

.. the L drive was in very limited production and quickly scrapped. i hear the opposite about older O/B's, they are easy to reach and work on.

I wish you well and welcome...

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

azlakes said:

.... i'll be sure to put a match to mine next week before someone gets killed. i'd do it this week but the fish are jumping.

Click to expand...

Don't bother, with all that soaked flotation foam it won't burn anyhow! j/k

Read my thread more carefully - I'd have no problem with owning a Bayliner, I just think it's very inaccurate to say Bayliners weren't cheaply built as compared to some of the more expensive makes of that period, because they were. That in no way makes them less fun to own AND they can be taken care of properly and provide many years (decades!) of enjoyment.

I'm not sure why some Bayliner owners act all offended when someone points out that there were better made boats. This is fact, not opinion. Why do you think they sold for so much less than say Chap or Cobalt? For gosh sakes, it's a boat, not a family member! If you need to feel you own "the best" then you should have bought an expensive boat with expensive hardware, upholstery, etc. Gosh, you don't see Chevette owners all offended if they read that Lexus makes a better sedan! They are happy with their value purchase, but do you think they say "Chevette is just as good as Lexus, it's just that chevette OWNERS don't take care of them"?

I didn't want to start the Bayliner arguement going again but I think we need to give honest info when helping someone make a buying decision. Bayliners were an entry level quality boat, that's just how it was......sorry if that offends any of you. I'm sure BAYLINER knew it! That was their formula for mass sales - build an affordable boat for more families at a profit! They couldn't SPEND a lot to make them if you sell them cheap!

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

... yup when VW came out with that bug what were they thinking. made an ol price point car that fit many needs well.

no offense taken TMH. like you said if a newbie spent 3500 bucks on any poorly kept vessel it'd be a shame. TD already said it but this is some of things I was told and have learned to look for on any used boat.

? if possible look for a first or second owner boat. Ask about the up keep, things like impeller changes, compression tests, and lu oil changes. See if the tilt and trim works well and no drift down on the O/B. Check around the boat. Look for keel rub down to the glass, rub rail separation, large cracks in the glass around the transom or anywhere for that matter. Step in the boat and feel for flex in the deck(springy or soft). Check around the bilge area, look for bolts thru the transom and see if rust and corrosion has occurred. See if the bolts have started to sink into the glass. Turn the steering wheel, see how smooth or noisy and creaky it is. Look in the ski locker, for open areas to exposed wood, pull bow cushions, lift seat pedestals. Have them fire up the engine, did it miss, die or idle rough. Pull the cowling, look for leaks, stains, cracked hosing, and bad wiring.

$3500 will get you in the game. Will it be gas an go? Prolly not for long. But an ol boat that has a great base to start from is a learning experience. You?ll be more inclined to know what you want later or bail out and not break the bank. Boating is a load of fun but contrary to its perception, not for the lazy.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Correct me if im wrong but bayliner does make decent boat, not the best but good enough for starters. The most important thing is the condition of the boat itself.

Would it be better for that age (17 years) boat to come with a outboard or inboard?

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Hey J.
years don t always matter with a boat if it has been well taken care of
its actually hours you want to keep in mind, how often did the seller take it out, how long did they stay out, salt or fresh water, that s the big one, salt water eats metal, yes eats try to find something that has been mostly used in fresh water and if it has been used in salt water did they flush it properly. Also you want to stay away from anything that has been sitting a long time especially if it has been sitting uncovered in the weather.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Well, jeruhmee, I'd have to put a vote for a boat with an out board . It will offer more flexibility : most semi-mechanical people can get by with the aid of a manual (then come here for better 411) Most that are cared for will keep running 30 ,40,50 years . If you need to change motors the o.b. is easier to remove. With the i/o you are more limited to changing when tradjety strikes - or you simply want more power .As TD said look arround , compare boats untill the right one bites you! We are running into a buyers market so no need to rush

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

TMH, to defend my statement.
"welcome to iboats. the bayliners were not bad boats, they were beginner boats, and most people who bought them, had no idea how to care for a boat. not bad boat, bad owners. though all you had to do was gas them up and go, never cover them, or do maintenance."

they were beginner boats, at a beginner price. the ones that were properly maintained are still around. the ones that weren't are fiberglass shells, with rotted guts. all boats have screws take come loose, the sun eats interiors that are not covered. the buyer of the higher priced boats, unusually kept better care of their investment.

i have 3 boats that the hulls are over 35 years old. and 1 10 year old. you can buy them cheap, put $500 into them and have a good hull, then add a power plant, and some cosmetics. boating does not have to be a $30,000 dollar project.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Have someone experienced/mechanic evaluate the boat. Well worth the $ even if you don't buy the boat.

Do not buy a boat that needs work unless you get real estimate to have it done and include that in the price/value of the boat. Repairs are VERY expensive unless you do it yourself, then they're only expensive, instead of VERY expensive, and will take at least 4 times as long to accomplish as expected/planned.

Transoms and floors are main things that go bad and cannot be overlooked. Bad interiors may look horrible, but boat is still sound/usable. Decide if the bad interior is from poor maintenance, or just sun and age. Poor maintenance means the rest of the boat will probably have suffered as well.

Take the boat out for test run. Not just a 2 minutes run with flushing adapter.

For a first boat, I'd recommend outboard. Simpler to maintain. Unless you are going to water that has environmental limits (some here in CA won't allow 2 stroke engines, or at least older ones, due to oil discharge) any good engine is fine. Force outboards are what remains of Chrysler engines. Weren't great to start with and generally not as good as other brands. But well maintained are probably fine. Again, have evaluated by professional, AND take for test run for an hour or more.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Getting back to the original question/need, there have been many very similar threads here over the past year or so. A few of the new members took their time, as we all recommend, then eventually found a very well-maintained boat that fit their needs and was at least close to what they planned to pay. So, do that! take your time, don't excuse the boats you look at just because you want to buy NOW!

If al you need is a 17' boat you really want to find one that has been garaged it's whole life! Anyone who uses garage space for their boat normally also maintains it flawlessly. If you get a 15-20 yr. old garage kept boat you will be shocked how darn nice it is!

Whether I/O or OB just follow the advice given. OMC outdrives are a hassle in the I/O category and Force in the OB catergory. CAN a Force still be in decent shape? of course, but still harder to get parts, etc. Why bother with that? There are so many old boats for sale between $3k-$4.5 k! Just look at the ones in great/very good condition and forget the others!

If you want to be very cheap, then buy a boat with an obviously bad floor but a good engine.....for $1-$1.5K, not $3500. Then you can replace the stringers/Transom/deck and still have a decent boat for less than $3k. LOTS of work though. Vinyl work is VERY expensive so look for upholstery in great shape - fairly rare on older boats buy they're out there!

Bottom line - rule out certain engines, look for generally great condition, THEN worry about the details.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Alright, got another question. I have looked around and people sell their boats with different size (hp) outboard. What size would be suitable for a 17" boat, something like the bayliner capri? Thanks.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

Most boats will have a max recommended hp on a plate attached to the boat, usually near the transom, but not necessarily. How much hp a boat can take widely varies depending on the boat's design and strength.

Re: Need Experts' Suggestionsn On buying a boat ----> "NEWBIE"

quite a good post goin here j

yeah the max hp is on the plate....you want to be right on the max or just a few below..15 hp is ok...but 25 is not that good..

but that origonal post by tashas daddy...you want to read that one twice...
(dont get carried away on the bayliner stuff)...the whole post is bang on.

what are you going to use the boat for?....VERY important.....

ya know...there is a thread here called show yer boat...have a peek !

my first real motor boat was a really old one....had a bubble windsheild !
and a fifty hp merc on the back. bought it for 300. one of the best summers of my life was spent on that ol ugly boat..we fished and water skied all summer.....

what im tryin to say is....you dont have to spend 3500...if you get an old boat in good shape...you can learn how to handle it, what your going to do with it...how you boat.
if you ram the dock...(and you will)...who cares ! after a season or two...sell it and get what you want...you'll know by then.

just some more stuff to think about

cheers
oops