Ever Heard Of This??!!

evinice66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
181
im always trying to learn and do different things ... this seems like this could be a very interesting project and im thinkg about doing this, adding un conventional hydro-foils to to my boat so my question here is does anyone know someone who tryed this before? what do you think about this?
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seawing.jpg
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allme.jpg
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interested.... heres a link http://www.foils.org/popmags.htm

just keep scrolling down and read! the issue with the second picture i posted acually has instructions!!!
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,762
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

Certainly it works. There is a large version of this concept in operation across the English Channel in the form of a passenger ferry.
 

JB

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Mar 25, 2001
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45,907
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

I have seen a few of these on TV and one on a lake. Looks like fun, except for the problem of keeping the outboard foot in the water and off the bottom. Sure would save a lot of fuel on long runs.
 

steelespike

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Apr 26, 2002
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19,069
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

A friend of the family was planning to do this back in the 1930s based on plans he found somewhere.I think in the teens or 20s there were a number
big boats built with hydro foils.I found some if his basic figure about weight
foil size.Just some very basic preliminaries.
 

evinice66

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Feb 15, 2008
Messages
181
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

hey steel.... how bout some advice? ...anyone...
ive already pitched this idea to many friends of mine and i wont live it down if i cant fly my boat by the end of this summer...
 

rndn

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May 20, 2007
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2,323
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

I've heard Bayliners are not a great boat in the water, so maybe this guy knew what he was doing!
 

bjcsc

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1,805
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

Well, it would be a cool project. For starters, what kind of boat are you planning on modifying and what's your budget? Where are you located?
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

Science and Mechanics also had an article back in the '60s. Go for it! Do the research as to area needed for lift, proper attachment for strength, and make them out of fiberglass over a lightweight core. I think you will find flying wings through the water will yeild an increase in speed over a conventional planing hull and a savings in fuel too.
 

evinice66

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Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

i live in milwaukee wisconsin, this is my first boat a 14 ft fiberglass w/ a 1966 evinrude 40hp lark big twin ive got about 5 and a half inches between my anti-cavitation plate and the bottom of my boat so thats as far as i think i can get the back end up but the front....well id like to see it maybe like 12 or 13 inches in the air, i read that id be able to make them out of oak, and have ruff-guidelines for construction, im pretty handy so im 80% sure i can do it but i need a table saw.... as a ruff budget i think i will only need like 100 bucks (donations accepted). i would like to have it completed by early summer, after i make sure my engine is all good and my transom is ok. it seemed solid when i bought it, for $50 at an auction but its an old boat so i re-inforced it... i then bought the engine that sat from 1989 till now and a trailer for 240.00 i also had to patch 2 holes in the bottom of the boat....this is the only picture i have of it as of now but ill take some more tonight when my sisters digital gets home.... ive actually already done a good deal of research so far, but different points of views are what i think i need in order to make it happen
thanks <br>
boat45.jpg
 

steelespike

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Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

hey steel.... how bout some advice? ...anyone...
ive already pitched this idea to many friends of mine and i wont live it down if i cant fly my boat by the end of this summer...

Sorry but I don't have any specifics just some very minimum figuring the weight of boat,outboard,pilot and gear.some very sketchy pencil drawings.
I can tell you from what I have read years ago they resemble an airfoil
and the boat flys through water.As I recall a long shaft motor on a short shaft boat.I'm sure if you do a careful search you'll find something.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

Just thought of this: Since you are actually flying a wing through the water:

Google or look up NACA in the reference area of your library. NACA was the predecessor of NASA. They had a whole book for aeronautical engineers showing thousands of wing chords (cross section through a wing) AND the expected lift per square foot of area. So instead of going in blind, you can figure the expected weight of your boat and gear, figure out the approximate area of the wing(s) in the water, and just find a suitable profile to yeild the lift required. ---Figuring the difference in speeds, and the density of water and air. Need Help? Find the local math whiz at the high school or college, and contact the local model airplane club. Explain clearly what you want to do.--I was once one of those geeks--They will be exuberant--out of their minds with glee--to help you.

Just for a little background so you know why it works: Air is a fluid just like water. An airplane wing or hydrofoil wing functions because of Bernoulli's principle. Fluid traveling over the top of the wing MUST travel farther. Because it travels farther, it must travel faster. The faster fluid generates a lower pressure than the slower fluid on the bottom of the wing , and this lower pressure (actually the differential pressure between surfaces) lifts up the wing. A wing is simply a flattened venturi--same principle, same pressure drop. A wing lifts something, a venturi sucks out fuel from the carb bowl.

Be aware of a phenominon known as "induced drag." The thicker the wing profile, the higher the lift (generally) and the greater the induced drag. --DRAG = Anchor = slower

You may want to consider using a symmetrical Chord, and vary the lift by changing the angle of attack. This tends to reduce induced drag.

Doing all this work on paper is easily accomplished during the bad weather and greatly improves your chance of success on the first try with the prototype.

Go for it! Good luck with your project. It's not really as difficult as I may have made it seem-you can do it. You should have a great time with it, and after doing the research and building, you should be proud of yourself.

By the way:Your attachment points will be supporting the weight of the whole boat, engine, gear, and foil assembly. You need to be sure the fastener size and reinforcements will have a safety factor of 3. That is, since you will have three points of attachment, each point should be capable of supporting the entire weight of the rig. Remember: even though you are flying the foils through the water, the ride is smoother, and the hull is above any roughness, there still will be impact loads (high wakes, for example) to contend with.
 

Edmac

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
31
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

You could try "U.S. Navy Hydrofoil", they had some in San Diego
back in the 50's running around the harbor. I watched them
from the deck of a tin can.
 

pootnic

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
447
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

I think Alexander Graham Bell invented the hydrofoil in the early 1900's.They have a museum in Baddeck Nova Scotia with an original one plus a reproduction.Way back in 1911 I think one went like 60 mph.He used airplane engines though,thought i seen one of his with a outboard/inboard type engine though.
 

evinice66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
181
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

thanks guys and hey frank... thankyou especially i think if i read your post enough, ill learn a few new words- so then when people ask me how it works
"i can sound smarting to the occation" that low pressure, hmm shape the foil like a wing?

also im kinda diggin that alot of the technology comes from the era of my boat and motor so its kind of "keeping with the times" so to speak.....
news flash....
im remodeling a house near me , and one of the other contractors said i can use his table saw, so maybe within a week ill have some new foils, ill keep documentation of steps and procedures, and cost, so if i succede i can pass along the intell to all that helped me "go figure".... i wonder if id be able to sell the plans????????? if i got them copywritten??????????
 

Hashi

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Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
502
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

i live in milwaukee wisconsin, this is my first boat a 14 ft fiberglass w/ a 1966 evinrude 40hp lark big twin ive got about 5 and a half inches between my anti-cavitation plate and the bottom of my boat so thats as far as i think i can get the back end up but the front....well id like to see it maybe like 12 or 13 inches in the air, i read that id be able to make them out of oak, and have ruff-guidelines for construction, im pretty handy so im 80% sure i can do it but i need a table saw.... as a ruff budget i think i will only need like 100 bucks (donations accepted). i would like to have it completed by early summer, after i make sure my engine is all good and my transom is ok. it seemed solid when i bought it, for $50 at an auction but its an old boat so i re-inforced it... i then bought the engine that sat from 1989 till now and a trailer for 240.00 i also had to patch 2 holes in the bottom of the boat....this is the only picture i have of it as of now but ill take some more tonight when my sisters digital gets home.... ive actually already done a good deal of research so far, but different points of views are what i think i need in order to make it happen
thanks <br>
boat45.jpg

How are you going to load it on the trailer?
 

evinice66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
181
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

it actually is on the trailer, funny story how it got there though. when i bought it, it was on the ground so at like 230 in the morning we backed the trailer up to it as i picked up the front end and then we keept backing up untill we couldnt anymore then i used the winch to pull it up the rest of the way. about 2 miles down the road the trailer blew a tire and there was nowhere to park it, so we brought it back to where we got it I WASNT DRIVING... on the way
a deer ran out in front of the car and the whole dang boat ended up fish tailing into a ditch! ha ha oh man that was great. lesson learned.... boat trailers need 2 tires....hmmm
 

arboldt

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Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
417
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

I think Hashi's question had more to do with getting it on and off the trailer once you have the supports and foils fastened to the bottom of the hull. Once you get the fouild mounted, how are you going to get it to / from the lake or river?

Trailer rollers or bunks are designed for the smooth bottom of the hull, not struts and wings. Once you get that part figured out, then I's suspect the trailer - boat combination would be quite top heavy. Not insurmountable, but something else to factor in.
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Ever Heard Of This??!!

What he didn't say and what I seem to remember is that in the original Science and Mechanics article, the front foils were removeable and the rear wing was mounted in a set of pivots. So: Both were out of the way when launching or retrieving the boat.
 
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