King Starboard

Looking to do a jon boat deck and floor, and wouldn't need a ton of this stuff, but the benefits are great. Easy to clean, no need to epoxy plywood and cover it with vinyl or carpet. Just looks to be so much nicer to use, nicer to implement, timewise, and for a small application that it's cost would be OK and worth doing.

But, what concerns me is expansion/contraction. Their website says this...

Test applications for unforeseen complications, such as expansion/contraction issues (note: different colors react differently to heat). King StarBoard? contracts and expands at a rate of 6x10-5 in./degree F, changing approximately 1/32 inch for every foot of length or width over a 40-degree temperature range

1/32 inch for every foot over 40 degrees? The sun can make a boat deck's temp too hot for bare feet, and in winter under a tarp here nightime can be under 20 degrees. So over a 100 degree swing in temp, if not more. And easily 40 degree swings daily regarding nightime temp vs daytime sun temp (not air temp, but sun beating down on it). And my floor would be at least a 6 foot length, 4 foot wide. How do you fasten this down so it can move that much, yet still remain fastened and feel solid so as not to tap the ribs when walking on it? I know you "hang" vinyl on a house, not nailed in tight so it can contract and expand, but this Starboard seems unusable for my jon boat application unless someone is using it this way and has good experience with it. Strength is not the issue for me. Ribs are 12 inches apart and the aluminum underdeck structure I'd build would also suffice, but this expansion is concerning.

Anyone have any experiences with this product in wide ranging temperatures? I REALLY like the other aspects of this product, but this one aspect is tough to look beyond.

Re: King Starboard

Maybe you could rip it into 10 or 12 inch boards and cut them about 24 inches. or if you could cut the length so the joints are near the ends 12 inches or so then a 6 ft piece would be down to 4 ft with an expansion joint
at each end.Then fasten it just snug with an oversize hole and a washer.
If it was me I'd be using PT ply no sealing required and it will out last you and the boat.Just check present type for compatibility with aluminum.
May need a coat of paint or something where it contacts metal.My transom is about 25 years never sealed or painted.First 20 years almost 9 months a year in the water in the north east.Allways stored outside,Factory transom lasted 5 years.

Re: King Starboard

on top of that it is heavy.

Re: King Starboard

tashasdaddy said:

on top of that it is heavy.

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Yea, good call there. Plywood approximately 75 lbs for a 4x8 sheet. Starboard 120lbs.

And it appears that all polymers have the expansion/contraction situation. I found SeaBoard and it's basically the same numbers.

Re: King Starboard

Thanks Steelspike. It's all pointing in the plywood direction.

Re: King Starboard

if your bottom is flat, and ribs 12 " apart, you could use 1/2" exterior plywood, seal all edges, and paint both sides, then install.

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Its the wrong material for decking, thats why nobody uses it that way. It's also slippery when wet and very weak in comparision to ply...unless you double/tripple it up or use plenty of extra framing.

I'd use pt ply and insulate it from the alum with visqueen or a gasket material. My pontoon boat has a 3/4" pt ply deck with carpet. The underside is bare wood without any coating. It's going on 12 yrs without rot or corrosion and sits in a boat lift over saltwater most of the time.

Re: King Starboard

Thanks, I hadn't thought about gasket material as a separator, but that definitely sounds like a good idea for PT plywood fastened to the floor ribs.

Re: King Starboard

"if your bottom is flat, and ribs 12 " apart, you could use 1/2" exterior plywood, seal all edges, and paint both sides, then install."

what he said.

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You will not regret using pt ply. It requires no coating or special maintenance to stay rot free. It doesn't matter if water intrudes into screw holes or edges. Cut it to fit, fasten down raw and forget it. Come back in 10 yrs and it's still in A1 shape. Water seal with epoxy or paint if you want but it won't rot regardless of coatings.

Re: King Starboard

I took a hard look at PT when I did my floor/deck, and latter when adding a casting deck. Here are the reasons I leaned away from it, in favor of ext AC:

- Trying to prevent direct PT aluminum contact was going to be problematic. Too many contact points, which included bottom, sides, center rib, and support structure.

- Leaching of chemical and sitting on alum, effects unknown.

- Local available 1/2" PT was lower quality than the ext AC sanded one side. (the PT had more warping and edge delamination)

- Most PT was still slightly "wet" and would require additional dry time before painting. Carpet in my fishing boat, was not an option.

- Exterior AC plywood was used when boat was built in '67, painted only on top, but still lasted 30+ years with decent care. PT would probably outlast it though, especially with continuous, direct exposure to water.



PS: Here is the work I did:
http://www.canadalake.org/Starcraft67.html
http://www.canadalake.org/Starcraftii.html

Re: King Starboard

Great looking boat John! Thanks for posting the pics.

How many ply is your 5/8 ext AC? Did you just paint it directly or apply an epoxy or some other coating before the paint?

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The plywood is 5-ply. After cutting to fit each piece was primed and sealed for paint. The edge was done twice. One coat of poly porch and floor paint to all surfaces. Installed pieces, and then two more coats. Last coat has a traction additive. Original paint was a very light sea green. I changed the color to sand to match seats. Kept it a light color to keep heat down.

After fishing, it cleans up easily with a hose. Touch-up paint is quick and easy, and I do this at season commision.

The boat is trailered and kept covered. If it was going to be left out with rain, etc left to collect in it, certainly better to go with epoxy or fiberglass encapsolation, or re-examine PT. Things do last if you take care of them.

PS: You want to be careful on how much total weight you will be adding. Not just the decking, but all the other fishing goodies, trolling motor w/battery, live-well, etc. I probably have an extra 1/3 person in the boat from the casting deck and the extra that was added to the floor.

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Great description. I appreciate that info. Mine is not inside a shelter, but is also trailered and covered. I like the thoroughness of your coatings. Quality work up front makes a huge difference. Thanks again. I'm sure I'll be back as I research this and that and pick the brains and experience of the gurus here.

Re: King Starboard

greg,
i'd stay away from the pt ply on aluminum, besides what everyone else has already said here, i've heard bad things from plenty of other people too...and i would definately avoid using starboard or anything like that, its just too heavy. remember the overall weight of your jon boat isn't very much, so thee extra 125lbs from 1 4x8 sheet of starboard would be a huge % increase in weight. my jonboat that i use only for duck hunting has a removable wood deck that i used painted cdx for....its just framed to fit in over 2x4s and take it out at the end of hunting season....but i wouldnt' recommend cdx for anything permanent

Re: King Starboard

I've been knocking around several ideas on what to use on my 15' aluminum boat, I ruled out PT due to the weight and corrosion issues, I ruled out starboard as well for flexibility and weight, and I want to avoid ever having to do this again since replacing the floor in my boat means complete removal of both rod boxes, all seats and 6 side gussets.
I am seriously considering doing it in aluminum diamond plate, coated in epoxy for corrosion resistance and top coated with a urethane truck bed liner coating.
Going to aluminum would be lighter than using 1/2" plywood, and more permanent, but may require adding a few aluminum runners and supports below the deck since it uses all wood right now. Doing it with aluminum will lighten the boat slightly, make it 100% weather proof and as well as make it super easy to clean. The cost of doing it in aluminum is about double, but on a small boat it's still not that bad, the only drawback I see is that I would have to weld two seams mid deck to make the floor all one piece. I started thinking of using aluminum after looking at a new Lowe boat which was done that way, only on those, the deck and all seams are welded. I probably won't decide for sure what the new floor will be till I remove the old floor completely, it will depend on whether or not I have enough existing structure to attach too.

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Sounds good Reelfishin. If you think about it when you start, post some pics. I'll do the same......but don't hold your breath waiting on me to begin mine.

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If in salt, make sure it is coated, everywhere. (including screw holes and screws).

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Something I considered was to use anodized aluminum, but I'm not sure it's worth the extra cost. I think I'd be far better off with a few heavy coats of epoxy. The new low boats are pretty well painted or powder coated and don't seem to scratch very easy. I've seen a few in use and they've held up well. I do see some light saltwater but I launch in freshwater. The bilge area will be heavily coated as will all drilled holes or cut edges. I priced the aluminum, it's about double of that of wood right now. For me it may be less work though.

One concern I have is sound or noise level in the boat without the wood. I rode in one that was all aluminum and it was like a drum, every little sound got amplified by the floor panels. The dealer here told me that they fill the lower hull with foam to deaden sound, but I'm not sure I like that idea either, there's no way to get at the foam if it got wet without wrecking the boat. The floors in that model were welded.

Re: King Starboard

reelfishin said:

One concern I have is sound or noise level in the boat without the wood. I rode in one that was all aluminum and it was like a drum, every little sound got amplified by the floor panels. The dealer here told me that they fill the lower hull with foam to deaden sound, but I'm not sure I like that idea either, there's no way to get at the foam if it got wet without wrecking the boat. The floors in that model were welded.

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For sound deadening, what about some type of rubber stripping under the aluminum plate where it attaches to the ribs (or whatever additional structure you build on the ribs for it to attach to)? I'm not sure what would be the best for longevity, but something along those lines.

Then on top of the aluminum deck itself, some open-mesh rubber (or something similar) mats that fit together. Easily removed as each are about 18-24 sq inches and simply piece together like a jigsaw puzzle. This would deaden the sound of dropping things, as well as reduce the heat of the aluminum when fishing in summer.

Fastening the aluminum plate to the understructure with rivets would work, but of course you're not going to be getting under it without tearing those rivets out. Not sure self tapping screws would be as good for this either, as far as their fastening strength.

I'm also knocking around some thoughts on this for my boat........eventually!