[spoon34]

I'm having a problem getting my motor to shift out of neutral into reverse or forward at all. It takes quite a few tries to start the engine from cold, but it runs and seems to idle fine once running -sputters occasionally. But as soon as I try to shift it into reverse, you can hear it trying but it just dies every time.

Bought this in November and it hasn't been tagged since 2004 until now. I've read and found some answers that it may be a "link and sync" problem or a "timing advance" problem. I don't really know what this means or how to fix thies eproblems... if this would be the problem with my motor, could someone give me some instructions?

I'm 19 - not a genius at motors, but I think I've figured out where the idle screw it - about halfway up on this arm thing on the engine- has a rubber cap that rests against a metal plate. It is already screwed in all the way though. Should I put something against the plate to make the idle speed higher? Spark plugs seem to work fine -that is, they give a spark...


One last thing - there is a knob I haven't messed with on the control box either on the front of it or underneath. Looks like a screw cap or something that twists... does this do anything for me? I haven't messed with it yet. Maybe it's an idle adjustment from the control box? Thanks for any expert advice!

Jon

[walleyehed]

Knob on the control box is a friction knob for the shift/throttle lever...
Your problem sounds very much like a Link-n-sync issue-very typical problem and easy to fix is you have a manual.
Kencook dot com on the www if ya can't find it right here at the iboats mall.
I would highly recommend you do both sets of carbs as well....it's cheap insurance compared to a hole in a piston.
If you need help finding the right manual, post back and I'll find it for ya.

[Ranger 330V]

Stop now...if you turn the wrong screw you can cause some major problems. Sounds like a link and sync or fuel problem...probably more of a fuel problem. Get yourself a manual...not a manual that covers 20 different engines. Get the OMC/Johnson/Evinrude manual. kencook.com is where I got mine...there are other places. You REALLY need that manual. I would also look at the thread awakening a sleeping outboard...that will give you alot of information about things you can and should do as it sounds as you are new to the outboard world and the things on there are fairly easy. I would really invest in the manual though...will be the best money you spend on the engine.

[spoon34]

Okay I did some testing on it this morning. Turns out that one of the cylinders isn't firing... cylinder #1 - the top right one and you are behind the boat. While I'm running the motor on idle (out of water with the muff things on), I would watch the exhaust and every once in a while - about every second or sometimes once every 2 seconds or twice a second , it would put a bugger puff of smoke out (light smoke - healthy smoke). When I take the sparkplug cable off of that cylinder/plug, the puff goes away and there is no difference/feel/sound in the engine or power. I replaced the sparkplug with a new one - Champion L77JC4 - no differences. Any help/suggestions???

[ezeke]

The spark plug may be bad, the plug wire may be bad, but the ignition coil is the most likely problem. Disconnect and take the three parts off and switch them with one of the other sets to see if the problem follows the set.

[spoon34]

I will try that tonight. Thanks. But I did replace the plug and got the same results. Could it be a compression problem or a carb buildup? What would be most likely?

[tashasdaddy]

check your compression, also physically swap the suspect coil with another, and see if the problem follows the coil. if it follows the coil, you know it is bad, if it doesn't and all 4 compression # are good. suspect power pack or fuel restriction.

[ezeke]

You could have a compression problem and that's usually the first thing you check before you buy the motor. But you are describing erratic firing which is certainly not unusual with the V4 crossflow.

When you disconnect the ignition coil, it cleans up the ground which can help, but this is a ten minute swap and will virtually eliminate the possibility of the coil/ wire/ spark plug being the problem. You can then run the compression and spark tests, then swap the power packs, and so on.

[spoon34]

I will try that! Thanks!

I would have tested it out more before buying if it was a bigger investment. However, $300 for a bass boat and a 140hp semi-working engine wasn't too bad of a deal I figured.

[spoon34]

Okay the sparkplugs are fine and spark fine. Compression turns out to be the problem. I got a compression tester kit and the top right and bottom left cylinders (looking from the back of the boat forward) (#'s 1 and 4 respectively) both hold no pressure. The bottom right and top left cylinders hold about 40PSI, which I guess is normal and good.

This is unfortunate for me, so now what's the next step? Like I said, I'm 19 and don't have any real experience with motors. My dad said it may be like the old "McCullough" race go-cart engines and there may be a reed stuck open in the cyliners, which lets the gas in or the exhaust out. Is this correct? If so, he said he knows how to fix that problem. Take the air things off, then the carbs and manifold, and replace them from there. Are they reeds though? What are other potential problems fixes? Thanks for all your help.

[spoon34]

I only tested it cold and with a battery charger/starter. Engine wasn't warm. And the compression tester is a cheap China one. Pistons arent broken off. They move normally. Am I screwed? It's such a nice boat...

[ezeke]

Probably not, that is a nice motor to work on if you have the time to give to it. You need a factory service manual for sure, though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-...mZ350038864183

The rings may be stuck, but I would invest in some head gaskets and bypass gaskets and take a look, The cylinder heads should come off fairly easily. If you have the time to get the exhaust cover off, you can give that a good inspection as well, but do that last. Check the port side first.

In the meantime, get some lubricant in there. Some of these fellows use Marvel Mystery Oil and such. I buy Pennzoil aerosol fogging oil. The rings might come free with heat and oil, but your best bet is to inspect first.

BTW, what kind of oil are you mixing with your gas? The older V4 motors run alot cleaner with the synthetic TCW-3 or synthetic blend TCW-3.

[spoon34]

Just the big blue jug from WalMart that says 2-Cycle Outboard Oil w/ TCW-3 around 50:1 - the walmart brand - Super Tech. So the rings may be stuck? Even if the pistons are moving freely? Thanks for the link I will buy it today.

[wavrider]

Originally Posted by spoon34

I only tested it cold and with a battery charger/starter. Engine wasn't warm. And the compression tester is a cheap China one. Pistons arent broken off. They move normally. Am I screwed? It's such a nice boat...

Need to have a good hot battery fully charged.
Remove all plugs and ground the wires to the block so no stray sparks to ignite any vapors.

Motor needs to spin at 300 RPM for good spark and also to build up the pressure needed for a compression check.

Re check your compression and on the low cylinders spray a little oil into the cylinder and retest, see if results change

decarb may loosen up rings and increase compression

[ezeke]

The rings can stick in the pistons due to coking or rust. The piston will move OK but the compression will not be as good and the risk of catching a ring on a port is much higher.

Regular de-carbon treatment such as found in BRP XD-50 oil, combined with an annual de-carb as prescribed by BRP/Evinrude will lessen the possibility of the carbon problem.

http://www.evinrude.com/NR/rdonlyres...e_schedule.pdf

BTW, if your compression gauge is not the screw-in type, you are probably not getting a very good test.

[Ranger 330V]

ezeke?? not trying to steal thread or anything...I use johnson/evinrude oil...what kind of improvements have you seen on the old crossflows using synthetics?? that interests me.

Also, what about the reeds?? might pull the carbs and make sure they are sealing off and working...they work as the valves do on a 4 stroke.

How smoothly did it idle in neutral?? I'm with the others...screw in type gauge and regular starting speed. you turn it over slow and you'll get blowby and a bad reading i bet. I'm amazed with those numbers that it would even run....I would get a good gauge, get some oil in there, and like was already said..carbon will stick those rings...and if they are stuck they can break and then you are ruined. soak it down with seafoam deepcreep or some sort of penetrating oil that will loosen stuff up. if you do run it I would also run the oil richer...more than 50:1 until you get it cleaned out...new plugs are way cheaper than new motor.

You'll LOVE that motor when she pans out..I'm still tinkering with things on mine, finally got a good run with orginal coils last december. All the rest of my electronics have been replaced...that is a stout motor. you can really suprise some newer engines on the lake with that 30 year old fat girl. Couldn't have done it without these guys and my manual though...gotta get that manual. GOOD LUCK

[spoon34]

Thanks. It sure is a fat motor haha! The gauge is the screw in type, and unfortunately I have no tachometer to notice whether or not I'm getting 300 rpm, but with the 250 amp battery charger on top of my battery's terminals, it runs like it's fully charged. Just not warmed up. Now to de-carb an engine in this state, am I supposed to put it in the gas mix like that FAQ says, or do I just spray it into the cylinders thru the sparkplug hole and then put the plugs back in and run it? And same with the oil you are telling me to oil it up with - spray it in thru the sparkplug hole? I'm ordering that manual later today. Thanks for the find.

My dad is a hardcore advocate of thinking it's the reeds that are somehow stuck open like you said ranger. It's not that those 2 cylinders are getting low compression - they are getting 0 compression. So to check those out, I just take the carbs off and then the manifold? The engine seems to run great when idling with muffs on - then again I don't know what normal is for this motor. BUT, like I said in the beginning, there's the occasional "puff" that comes out of the exhaust from the top right cylinder, apparently indicating that it works about once a second. When I take that plug off, the puff goes away.

[ezeke]

To Ranger: Here is what happened: I used the OMC TCW-3 oil for years on my old 1976 Johnson 115. Before that I ran the 1973 135. Every time we went fishing and trolled for a few hours, the plugs were fouled. That was not just my experience, anyone I knew and any engine did the same if you did not open it up.

The first time I changed to Synthetic Blend, I knew we had found something good. Before long everyone I knew was using some synthetic or another. They seem to all work well and I'm told that it is that the oils are refined better and the flash points are significantly higher. I can definitely see the difference in the plugs and in the results when I de-carbon the engine. I can't prove it, but I think the engines run better.

I used Synthetic Blend at 25:1 on my nephew's TurboJet (115HP crossflow) until I tore it down last summer after 5 years of high school and college use. The engine was spotless. I rebuilt it when I gave it to him and I was very pleased that it was in such fine shape on inspection.

Currently I'm using only 100% synthetics that are labeled as biodegradable. If I went back to the blends I would most likely use the XD-50 because of the Carb-X content. The older motors don't have much in the way of recirculation systems, so I think any chemical advantage is worth the extra money.

[ezeke]

BTW, You would get a compression reading even if all the reeds were wide open. Think about it.

[spoon34]

Wouldn't all the air pass thru them tho? I honestly wouldn't have a clue haha.

[ezeke]

I wonder if you would elaborate on the following a bit:

"BUT, like I said in the beginning, there's the occasional "puff" that comes out of the exhaust from the top right cylinder, apparently indicating that it works about once a second. When I take that plug off, the puff goes away."

Specifically, what exhaust are you speaking of when you say "...comes out of the exhaust..."?

About the compression: the piston rises past both exhaust and scavenger ports, pressurizing the fuel that it has scavenged. The tighter the piston and rings, the better the compression. The compression gauge has a valve to keep the air from escaping so that you can take a reading before releasing it. Therefore, the compression is independent of what is taking place behind the piston.

Bill Kelly explains 2 bangers pretty well: http://www.maxrules.com/fixtheory2.html

[Ranger 330V]

lol...o my goodness...big brain fart...yeah you would...wow...

[Ranger 330V]

I was thinking in 4stroke...and valves...lol. reeds on backside of piston not like valves on front side...you'd still have compression. the piston actually sucks the mixture into the crankcase on the up stroke...ports allow the mixture to get in front of the piston...spark plug ignites mixture shoves piston down and compresses gases in crankcase...reed opens and allows mixture out...you'd still have compression. whats bad is I teach that in ag mechanics at school...lol.

[spoon34]

Good deal... so I spray oil in the cylinder thru the sparkplug hole? Should I spray it in while it is running and then replace the plug? The exhaust I'm talking about is out of the center of the actualy propeller... the place where it is supposed to come out. Twice a second, once a second, or once every two seconds, there would be an extra poof of exhaust smoke.. nothing black - just normal smoke, but more of it. Made sense that it was a cylinder that was firing occasionally. Took of the plug cable offa cylinder #1 and the poof stopped happening.

[Ranger 330V]

that sounds like it is firing at the wrong time...does it come with a back fire?? bang?? mine did that when I first got it..."mech" had wires crossed...I would follow all your wiring...make FOR SURE that the wire coming from the powerpack is going to the RIGHT coil. Check and recheck. its easy to do. if thats not it...which it normally is from what I've been told...OR...two plug wires crossed...again...check and recheck...