[Randy22]

For a month or so, I've been trying to isolate a problem with my 200HP Offshore engines and with the help of you guys, figured out a lot of what was not the problem. Finally got down to taking it to a mechanic and he found that both engines failed due to the gear on the oil injector pump worn down (both engines). Given the odds of this happening on two engines within 15 minutes of each other blows my mind, but I know it is possible.

Here is where I need some help...to replace the factory injector pumps is just over $2,000.00. I saw on a forum where a guy who use to work at Mercury either designed or developed an Electronic Oil Injector Pump to retrofit the Gear Drive Pump. The cost of these units is like less than $1,000 for two units which obviously gets my attention and really make a lot of sense to me in light of the fact a year or so down the road, these gears could wear out again. I only have just over 300 hours on these '98 motors.

Have any of you had any experience with these electronic units (Marine Solutions - www.marinesolutionswi.com)? Looking for someone who has either put one on or know of someone who is running this type unit with good or bad experience. Would appreciate any input. Thanks...

[j_martin]

That looks like a good option to me.
What else was in common when they failed? Did both engines kick out of the water and overrev at the same time, for instance? The plastic gear is considered good to about 6500 rpm.

BTW, the best way to post a link is on a seperate line, like this:

http://www.marinesolutionswi.com

The extra stuff accidentally left on the end of yours breaks the link.

hope it helps
John

[Randy22]

Sorry John...wasn't paying attention to the web link but thanks for adding it to yours so someone can access.

Somewhere mixed in all these topics are the details of my delimma, but a quick version is one engine oil alarm went off (beep-beep-beep) and then about 15 minutes, the other engine went off. I have excellent oil pressure coming from the main oil tank to the motor tank; good pressure at the motor tank (loosen cap and oil flows out freely) and oil coming out of the injector when I loosen the bleed screw. Paid $232.00 for an alarm module thinking that might be it; $48.00 for the cap and sensor that goes on the motor oil tank but nothing turned the alarms off. The only thing I have done that could have caused this (and actually the mechanic thought this could have been the problem 'and I disagree') was I switched to Pennzoil Synthetic oil about two weeks before these engines went down. That has stuck in the back of my mind since I was trying to determine a common factor which would effect two motors within 15 minutes of each other. I still have difficulty beleiving two motors gears would break or strip off.

[CharlieB]

Show me the gears!

Ya know how super glue does not work very well at all on some materials, a somewhat similiar situation occasionally occurs with synthetics, NOT compatable with all plastics.

Save your old parts, the oil drive gears, it is concievable that Penziol syn did contribute to an early demise of the plastic, either by embrittlement or softening, testing needs to be done.

Good Luck!

[jchagnard]

I've been using Pennzoil Syn TCW3 in my '95 135XL since '00 with no ill effects. Just inspected the nylon (plastic) worm gear this week and its OK. But I guess anything can happen.

[kiksav]

FYI- I switched to Penzoil lower unit synthetic oil. Two months later my lower unit gears failed. I have gone back to Merc. hi performance lower unit oil. I have recently switched to Penzoil full synthetic 2 stroke oil on my 200 hp carb'd outboard. Everyone on this forum swears by it! Your thread scares the crap out of me! I use Star-Tron additive, Sea Foam and some Marvel Mystery oil in my fuel. My smoking has dramatically been reduced. Sure hope the Penzoil doesn't fry my oil injection gears!

[Randy22]

Here is what I have learned since my post last week regarding Pennzoil. First let me say, I am NOT bad mouthing this oil. All I am offering is an opinion of some folks and sharing that with you guys for your own evaluation. Something caused both my engines to fail within 15 minutes of each other and if I can help someone avoil this nighmare, that is my desire. There are others out there who are much more educated on this than me, but it raises the question of changing types of oils on motors with several years on them or with high hours. Additionally, anyone with an oil injector alarms on their boat should not just dismiss this. It could be the sensor and if so, that is an easy fix. But most everyone thought the odds of the engine not getting oil was very high, but if these gears did strip, then neither engine was getting the necessary oil to keep them from burning up. Now, regardless of what I do regarding the injectors, I will keep enough oil on my boat to pour in my main tank and premix should I get another alarm. I was only a few miles from the dock when this occured. If I had been 52 miles offshore on a rig, that would could have been a disaster.

For sure, synthetic will reduce your smoke. When I was using the Quick Silver and fired up these 200HP Off Shore engines, you had better run for cover or be prepared to smell like engine smoke for a while. The Pennzoil cut that aspect down 90%.

On to the news...my understanding (and again, I am no oil expert) is that the Pennzoil somewhat acts more like a sticky lube and really ahears to the engine parts, walls, etc., but in doing that, puts some drag on moving parts. I assume the absence of excess smoke indicates the oil is not burning thru the system like the Quick Silver. Hence (and this came from a reliable source) the excess drag could have caused the gears to go. They could have already been somewhat worn but the switch to Pennzoil and the additional torque put on them caused the failure. I am picking up the boat today and over the next day or so pulling the injector and given through a couple of process, can see the gear inside the engine and visually see if there is damage or not.

[Randy22]

I pulled both injectors and the gears are gone. You would not believe the plastic material caked on the Driven Gear. No wonder I could never get the injector failure alarms to go off...there was no oil going to the engine. I just ordered two of the electrical injectors as I have no intentions of having both engines torn down just to replace a plastic gear.

Whether or not the Pennzoil Synthetic Oil had anything to do with this is anyone's guess. But I do know both engines failed within 15 minutes of each other two weeks after changing to the Pennzoil and this was the first trip which I ran hard after putting the Pennzoil in the boat.

I'll advise on how the Electronic Oil Injection system goes once it is installed over the weekend.

[gss036]

Randy, make sure you install the kit designed to keep things in place w/the oil pump system removed. I have never done one, but there is said to be an insert that goes in the hole to hold things in place. I am sure with all the research you have done that you have that info by now.
Scream and fly had them on thier site a while back but can not seem to locate them today.
Good Luck!

[j_martin]

Usually what kills the plastic gears is heat. Is it possible you had just gone through a big gob of algae or weeds and partially plugged both cooling systems?

[j_martin]

Yes, you could drop a bushing into the crank without the keeper part.

Usually what kills a plastic gear is heat. Is there a chance you ran through some mucky algar, or weeds and partially clogged both cooling systems?

I suspect some fuel additives could be hard on plastic also.

[wilde1j]

Originally Posted by Randy22

I pulled both injectors and the gears are gone. You would not believe the plastic material caked on the Driven Gear. No wonder I could never get the injector failure alarms to go off...there was no oil going to the engine. I just ordered two of the electrical injectors as I have no intentions of having both engines torn down just to replace a plastic gear.

Whether or not the Pennzoil Synthetic Oil had anything to do with this is anyone's guess. But I do know both engines failed within 15 minutes of each other two weeks after changing to the Pennzoil and this was the first trip which I ran hard after putting the Pennzoil in the boat.

I'll advise on how the Electronic Oil Injection system goes once it is installed over the weekend.

The failure likely had nothing to do with your choice of oil. The plastic gear is just a crappy design that Merc stuck with for years. The electronic oil injection deal works fine as long as you didn't already damage the powerhead. Just follow the directions carefully, including the possible spark plug change. I had a Merc 150 fail and put the electronic injection on and it was great and kept all the original oil alarms. You may have to trim some material away on the inside of the motor cover for clearance (I did.)

[Randy22]

Thanks for all the good comments. As far as overheating, unless my indicators are wrong, I've never had a heating problem. One engine runs about 10 degrees warmer than the other, but that is about the extent of it. I run in the Gulf 3-4 times a year, but other than that, the motors are in either fresh or brackish water and if I do run in the Gulf, they have always been flushed, so to the best of my knowlege, I have never run through grass or even sand.

Again, the Pennzoil issue may have just been timing. I've heard a lot of folks say the plastic gear (something that is very critical to the engine) was a terrible design and I agree. Even though the electrical injector can fail, at least I now have something external rather than internal. If it were not for having your motors torn down, I would probably replace the gear, but labor is what is driving my cost over $2,000. Additionally, the fact I can do this myself and it is half the cost of the Mercury replacement has a great value. And as for the spark plugs, you'll spend $80-$100 for those, but I found the exact recommended plus (and you do have to change all your plugs with this unit) at NAPA for $7.40. A boat dealer gets $10-$12 a plug. www.sparkplugs.com has them for around $6.40, but with shipping (unless you do UPS Ground), the local parts dealer was cheaper in the long run. And my having to replace 12 made me shop around.

I'll let you guys know how it goes...