Hi, I'm a first time boat buyer, and just went through a nightmare with a boat I just bought but was lucky that I was able to return it to the previous owner, you can see the thread on it here: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=209894
before I make the same mistake again, I have a few questions.
I want a boat that I can cruise the rivers with, take the kids camping or just have a play day out on the water.
from what I understand, I want to stick with either a mercruiser, or volvo penta outdrive. from my experience with the last boat I bought, I see now that I really need to take a screw driver with me and check the oil in the out drive, are there any other tools I should have? and what else should I be checking? and how do I check it? I realize these may be loaded questions, but I need some sort of starting point.
my thinking is that I can check a few basics myself before I make the decision to take it to a mechanic to have it professionally checked out, if it can't pass my basic inspection, then I see no point in following through with the purchase of the boat or making appointments to take it to a mechanic, so what are your thoughts and advice, go easy on me folks, I am completely new at this and don't want to make the same mistake I made last week, that mistake sent me into a tail spin.
to get this thread off to a start, here's a couple of boats I an considering, the boat in this post, I called on tonight, and the one red flag I got was when the guy told me that the chevy 350 that's in it has 800 hours on it and it's never been rebuilt or had any extensive work done to it, he did say however that he spent about 3,000 dollars on the new upholstery and the new top, and from the pictures, the boat does look nice to me, but the 800 hours on the engine concerns me, is that something to worry about? he did tell me that it is solid and runs really well, and he's got reciepts for everything that's ever been done to it including the original owners manual, he also said it's got new exhaust bellows, and the rubber seal that goes between the outdrive and the hull, but the outdrive is an OMC, is that something to be concerned about?
here's the ad and pictures: 1980 Sun Runner 19ft Pleasure Boat
Fully enclosed new canvas top and all new interior with cuddy cabin. Chevy 350 v8 (260 HP). With Ryco trailer. Just lowered price must sell don't have room to store. $3,100.00
- Fishing pole holders
-Humming Bird Depth/Fish finder
-New prop
-New controls
-Newly tuned-up
here's the second ad, I have not called on this boat yet, but from the ad, it does look well maintained.
21 ft, 1979 Bayliner Santiago, Cuddy Cabin with Kicker Motor - $2650
For Sale by Owner: 1979 21ft Bayliner Santiago with Kicker Motor & Trailer, 21 Foot. $2500 obo Perfect size boat. Big enough to handle big water, yet small enough to launch by myself. This boat CUTS through rough water. (Deep "V")
Just Had Carb rebuilt. Cooling system is INTERNAL Antifreeze Coolant(fresh water).
Lots of fixes DONE. The outdrive has been removed by a Boat Shop and new seals and cable boots were installed(I have all the receipts). Rebuilt Carb. I also had the helm rebuilt so this boat shifts NICE! I installed a new Marine Fuel pump, changed the oil, new Battery, Points, Cap & Rotor, Plugs, Wires, Fuel-Water Separator, I added a used Marine Alternator and Brackets instead of the "Built-in" Generator that the engine was built with. Charges awesome. New Fuel Tank Float level indicator.
This boat has the Mercruiser 470 (170 HP)and Out-Drive, a Bilge Pump, Cabin light, Sleeps Two Adults++ in Cuddy Cabin, CB with Antenna, Camp Canvas (Forward Canvas is good, Rear needs redone) Fish Finder. Two Back to Back seats two rear seats (not to mention seating in the Cabin). Starboard side seats can sit two people side by side in each (4). Total seats 8+ people. 57 GALLON ALUMINUM FUEL TANK! Rear Live Fish Well or Cooler. 4.5 HP Johnson Kicker Motor with new fuel Tank and line. Eazy Loader Trailer (or "easy loader"). New Tongue Jack, Surge Brakes, Tires have good tread.
I just bought a new boat and need to sell this one. It has the Mercruiser 470 Four Cylinder.
This engine has 170 hp! Nicknamed the "Iron Duke". It is a 4 cyl (Half of a 460 Block) Chevrolet/Mercruiser. I heard that this engine was in the early 60's Chevy Nova and then Mercruiser bought the mold. It has a Mercruiser 470 out-drive.
what do you guys think? anything I should be asking these sellers on these boats, and what should I be looking at when I got to look at the boat, what should I ask the seller?
I would stay away from anything older then mid 90s, old boats have wood and wood rotts. Have you considerd looking for an outboard? 2 stroke outboards need alot less matinece than an I/O boat. I've had both and personaly i will never own another I/O. The 470 in that old bayliner is a nightmare.
I wouldn't go for the Sunrunner, it is an old boat, with an OMC drive, (discontinued, hard to get part's) plus it's way to much money, for what it is. The Bayliner is old Also, that 470 motor is discontinued, there were questionable issues with it's design, it is not the "iron duke" motor, that would be the 3.0 motor which is more user friendly. I would say, keep looking.
I would stay away from anything older then mid 90s, old boats have wood and wood rotts. Have you considerd looking for an outboard? 2 stroke outboards need alot less matinece than an I/O boat. I've had both and personaly i will never own another I/O.
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When I look at an i/o while it is on the trailer the first thing I do is grab the lower unit and try to move it by hand from side to side. If there is alot of play, stay away. If it is tight, then things are still alright. Alot of play can be caused by worn gimbals and that is an expensive repair. Next, I'll push down on the lower unit, even step on it and watch the transom where the out-drive meets it for any sign of flex. If there is any flex you can be sure that the transom is soft, meaning the wood behind the fiberglass is rotten. Run away from that one. While still outside the boat look under it for any signs of hull repair. The glass should be smooth with out waves or discolorations.Note the surface. I have seen boats where the hull looked good from a few feet and when I got on my knees up close and personal with it, then noticed one side of the hull had a slight amount of orange peel in the finish. Run your hand over the hull. Touch can sense more then sight can see. If it has bottom paint, usually black, the sacrificial stuff to keeps nasty things from growing on the hull, it is a little harder to notice repairs. One thing to consider, if it does have bottom paint is that it most likely spent alot of time in the water and as a result may have blistering in the gel coat. Blistering occurs when the water permeates the gel coat and the sun cooks the water behind the gel coat causing the gel coat to bubble. You will see this at the water line if it has any. A fiberglass hull can hold quite abit of water in it. This is mainly a concern in boats that stay in the water complete seasons.
Next I would go inside the boat and walk all over the floor pausing to put a little bounce in my step in different areas. I do that looking for soft spots in the floor. Soft spots equal rotten wood. Grab the steering wheel and turn it from side to side noting how much play is in it before you feel resistance. That may indicate a worn steering system.
Lift seat cushions and check seating bases wood for rot. Check the underside of the seats for same.
On the engine I would remove the oil fill cap on the valve cover and take note of how the portion of the head looks that you can see. It should be clean shiny metal. Run you finger around in there too. If you see any type of gunk, that engine is in a funk.Pull the dip stick and take note of what's on it. Top to bottom.
That's about all I really do while the boat is on the trailer.
Please excuse the goofy rhymes, I just watched a funny Johnny Cockrin bit and couldn't resist.
I would stay away from anything older then mid 90s, old boats have wood
not all boats though. my aristocraft claims it don't have wood in it. before i got my 1975 boat, i looked at lots of garbage that was 15-20 years newer. so i wouldn't rule out older boats. some can be in pretty reasonable condition. it just depends on how the boat has been cared for.
i'd stay away from a 470 merc too. that apperently wasn't a real good idea mercruiser had. a late 70's bayliner may be questionable too. search bayliner here. there was just a big post on the pluses and minus' on them. personaly, i wouldn't....
when i was shopin boats, i also found a list online somewhere. sorry i don't know where. but it was a list of things to look for when buyin a used boat.
it was helpfull for sure. i was able to find stuff in need of repair pretty easy by going by the list. google buyin a used boat or something to hopefully come up with a list......
If you do some checking around, you will notice that there are few I/O boats built now that use 4 cylinder motors. The reason is they just don't produce the power necessary to push these boats along. If you just have to have an I/O (I personally prefer outboard power) get a V-6 or V-8. I would also recommend picking up a compression tester if you are looking at older motors; a compression check can go a long way in telling you the health of the motor.
ok, if I go looking for an outboard, what's good and what's not? I want to get something in the 18 to 21 foot range, but only have about 4 grand to work with, I haven't a clue about what to look for in an outboard, but for a first time boat owner, that literally knows nothing about this stuff, maybe an outboard is a better way to go? I am mechanically inclined, so all is not lost, I'm just going to have to do a lot of learning before I start messing with my own motors and out drives, or outboards, or what ever I end up with, I am seeing though that the bayliners don't seem to bring much money around here, and looking at the local online ads, I'm seeing a lot of what I would consider nice looking boats that aren't selling, I'm seeing the same ads reposted with dropped prices week after week, plus it's getting late in the boating season around here, so maybe some better buys will start turning up.
thanks for all your input, keep it coming, I'll stay away from the two boats that I listed earlier in this thread and keep looking.
OK, here's a 96, it's a little shorter then what I was wanting, but would probably still work for us:
1996 16' Excel Runabout - $3300
1996 EXCEL RUNABOUT 16' 1" GREAT FISH, SKI. TUBE, WAKEBOARD, SUNDECK AND FLOAT BOAT. 45 MPH, HUGE AMOUNT OF STORAGE, GREAT FUEL MILEAGE ON 80HP YAMAHA. PERFECT BOAT FOR 3 OR 4. INCLUDES ALL KINDS OF SKIS AND ACCESSORIES. AM FM CD AND SAFETY KIT
For what it's worth; Don't just shop locally. Go online and get the web addresses for papers in your surrounding states, and check their classifieds too. Many television stations have home pages that have free classifieds, that's a good place to check. Don't buy smaller than you want- you may have to wait a little, but it's better than leaving people waiting on the shore while others go boating. Buy the most power you can- you can always drive slower but you can't make a slower engine go faster. Pay close attention to the way a boat looks. A high end boat that's been poorly taken care of is worse than a low end that's been loved.
In your price range you are probable going to have to get a Bayliner or similar. I just passed my bayliner fish and ski onto my son. It is an 86, and has only had the impeller changed on the outboard. If you go bayliner, avoid the Force engines- parts can be hard to come by. If you get an outboard, try to get one with power trim- it makes the boat alot more versatile. Just try not to get into a hurry and make a mistake you may regret.
I'm going to go out today and look at some boats, I'll post pictures and info of what I looked at when I get back, thanks for the input, keep it coming.
If i was you I would not go smaller then a 17. When my wife and I take out another couple with us the space can get tight fast on my 17, my boat says its rated for 6 but i will not go out with more then 4 onboard add in a tube and maybe a set of skis plus a cooler with snacks and drinks and your runnin out of room. One of the benefits of having an outboard it you don't have a car moter takin up room. Befor you buy anything try to get a seatrial it might even be a good idea to try renting a few boats just to get a taste for what you like.
One of the biggest things I looked for when i was shoping for my last boat was no wood construction!! I have done the whole replace rotted transom and stringers thing and swore i would never do that again. No wood=no worrys
Don't even consider that Sunrunner unless you plan on spending half your time either working on the drive, chasing parts or spending a fortune on a mechanic to keep that dinosaur running. I would go with at least a 19' ftr. with either a Merc or Volvo. Don't even think about anyting with an OMC 400 or 800 series. They were junk from day one.
The best advice I rec'd when shopping fr an older boat was to ONLY consider very common engines/drives, whether in or outboard. Wound up with a 1985 mercruiser 305 with an Alpha one outdrive - just like a TON of boats from that time. Easy to get parts anywhere, lots of info around, mechanics work on them all the time, etc. I'd say just don't bother even looking at any boat with an engine/drive that is anything but "typical" - you'll save a few $$$ upfront but spend a ton more later AND have the boat in the shop for longer.
Second best advice is to take your time. LOTS of older boats for sale, wait until you find one VERY well kept. No soft floor (although I DID have to replace mine), general well-kept look, etc. These cost a few $$$ more than average condition, but again, much cheaper in the long run.
Think through how you will use the boat again. A 17' boat is small and tough on most wives when it's choppy. Want your wife to enjoy the outings...make sure the ride suits her OK. Kids love to bounce around some but most wives do not. 19' is still "fun" but a much smoother ride...and lot's more room.
I don't see why the early-mid 90's is magically better than the mid-late 80's other than just newer. Few if any boats of this type were wood-free then either. Maybe someone know differently, but I haven't seen the "wood-free" craze until the 2000's mostly, and many of those aren't all they're cracked up to be either because they have cores that can still water-log. Many boats like mid-late 80's do have some water issues, but some don't - findone of those!
thanks tmh, seawolf, mike, and others, I'm still looking, I was looking on craigslist near Seattle washington, that's not to far away from me either, but I think it's all salt water up there, and if I'm thinking right, getting a boat from that area and I might be asking for trouble, I did look at the old 78 bayliner yesterday, but it wasn't near as nice as it looked in the pictures, but it has had a lot of recent work done to it, but I'll hold off, see if I can come up with something a little newer and a little cleaner
The alphas aren't bad drives, I think the Bravos are a little stronger in the top-end, something to do with shaft and clutch size I believe, but there are TONS of Alphas out there kicking it; parts are easy to come by too, which is of utmost importance.
need advice on buying used boat
Re: need advice on buying used boat
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