Yamaha Genius Needed

philthy1

Cadet
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
10
I have a real puzzler, that has cost me a butt load of time,
money, and some hair. I have a 1985 Yamaha 115 precision blend outboard that has the strangest symptoms. Firstly, I am a 45 year old auto-mechanic that has been spinning wrenches for 28 of them, so I am no stranger to mechanical systems. The outboard sat in a friends garage for 15 years, so I knew I would have some carb work. I rebuilt both carbs, replaced the fuel pump, fuel lines, removed & cleaned the fuel tank, cleaned out both the remote oil tank and the on-motor oil tank, changed sparkplugs, changed waterpump, resealed lower unit, flushed trim & tilt fluid.
This particular model has 2 Teiki carburators on it. After accomplishing all of this work with the help of a seloc manual, I took the boat out on the local lake for a test & tune. I got it to idle decent, but as I brought the throttle up over 1800 rpms, it would start to misfire and just die. I discovered that I could manually flutter the electric choke and get it past this point to full throttle where it ran fantastic. I ran it at full throttle across the lake for almost 45 minutes, never missed a beat, green light on the console says all is ok. When I try to back off full throttle to about 4000 rpms, it starts to sputter, misfire and die unless I manually trigger the electric choke, and that certainly smooths it out temorarily. This tells me it's lean from 1800rpms to 4000, but, low speed and full throttle is fine. I figure I must have missed something in the carbs, so I pull them off and soak them in an agitating carb tank over night, then boil them in a 50/50 mixture of carb cleaner & water for a couple of hours before blowing them out and reassembling them. I put them back on, SAME PROBLEM! I decided to check my spark intensity, and found a weak coil, After replacing all 4 coils I have the SAME PROBLEM! All 4 Cyls compression is right at 140PSI, and there is no smoke
or other evidence of excessive oil burning. What makes this even weirder is that when I pull and check the spark plugs, they are always fuel fouled..

Anyone gotta clue? I'm ready to toss a match in it's general direction..
Phil....
 

Ray Neudecker

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
1,656
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

Eliminate the engine mounted filter assembly and the quick disconnect for the fuel. Using a water seperator instead of the filter. Also eliminate the anti siphon valve on the tank.
These have been common causes of fuel problems on engines which have sat for a long period and can drive you through the wall on fuel restrictions.
Note Yamaha went to a differebt filter and eliminated the quick disconect on later models to aliveate the problems with these items.
 

philthy1

Cadet
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
10
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

Thanks, I will remove the quick disconnect, the engine screen/filter and the anti-siphon check valve on the tank.
As for the cartridge type water separater, it already has one.
At this point I am willing to try anything, but it runs so good at full throttle, is there any possibility of a vacuum leak? Maybe somewhere I can't get to. because I have sprayed light oil everywhere else trying to find one..
Phil....

P.S. Yes the fuel bleed hoses & check valves are
intact and functioning correctly.
 

Ray Neudecker

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
1,656
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

Experience with the Yamaha electronics gives the impression that you have a fuel system problem. Lets first get rid of the known causes, since they are of no benefit anyway.
We will likely end up back at the carbs also.
Let us hear when you get this done and tested. If you did not replace the bowl gasket .needle and seats when you went through the carbs. Be prepared to do so.
 

Capt Ken

Commander
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Messages
2,269
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

you don't have a fuel delivery problem since the engine is running a WOT. If it was a fuel delivery problem, it would first take off then fall on its face. Be sure the timer base is moving smoothly and not sticking at the idle position. The only problems I've ever encountered with the V4's is the CDI. They have a habit of losing one cylinder but you would have found that with the spark check.
 

aleutianwest

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
40
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

philthy1 said:
I have a real puzzler, that has cost me a butt load of time,
money, and some hair. I have a 1985 Yamaha 115 precision blend outboard that has the strangest symptoms. Firstly, I am a 45 year old auto-mechanic that has been spinning wrenches for 28 of them, so I am no stranger to mechanical systems. The outboard sat in a friends garage for 15 years, so I knew I would have some carb work. I rebuilt both carbs, replaced the fuel pump, fuel lines, removed & cleaned the fuel tank, cleaned out both the remote oil tank and the on-motor oil tank, changed sparkplugs, changed waterpump, resealed lower unit, flushed trim & tilt fluid.
This particular model has 2 Teiki carburators on it. After accomplishing all of this work with the help of a seloc manual, I took the boat out on the local lake for a test & tune. I got it to idle decent, but as I brought the throttle up over 1800 rpms, it would start to misfire and just die. I discovered that I could manually flutter the electric choke and get it past this point to full throttle where it ran fantastic. I ran it at full throttle across the lake for almost 45 minutes, never missed a beat, green light on the console says all is ok. When I try to back off full throttle to about 4000 rpms, it starts to sputter, misfire and die unless I manually trigger the electric choke, and that certainly smooths it out temorarily. This tells me it's lean from 1800rpms to 4000, but, low speed and full throttle is fine. I figure I must have missed something in the carbs, so I pull them off and soak them in an agitating carb tank over night, then boil them in a 50/50 mixture of carb cleaner & water for a couple of hours before blowing them out and reassembling them. I put them back on, SAME PROBLEM! I decided to check my spark intensity, and found a weak coil, After replacing all 4 coils I have the SAME PROBLEM! All 4 Cyls compression is right at 140PSI, and there is no smoke
or other evidence of excessive oil burning. What makes this even weirder is that when I pull and check the spark plugs, they are always fuel fouled..

Anyone gotta clue? I'm ready to toss a match in it's general direction..
Phil....
 

aleutianwest

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
40
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

I from experence . i hate to admit had the same senerio i mixed up the jets once. it cleared up after i got them were they belonged
 

philthy1

Cadet
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
10
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

The Carb kits were what I would consider high quality as they came with needles & seats, O-rings, new mixture adjustment screws, and new floats. I have located another set of used carbs, just in case. My seloc manual was very clear on the fact that you could mix-up the pilot air bleed jets with the main air bleed jets. good illustrations and numerical jet identification have prevented that mishap. but I have heard from others that the intermediate transfer port holes in these carbs are really small and prone to clogging.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Yamaha Genius Needed

you dont need a genie-u,
ya need to read your own post.
by toggling the choke you forced the intake mix rich.
you stillhave carb,pumpor fuel line issues.
put a vacum gauage at the pump intake, it should read 1/2 to about 3", no more than 4"hg from idle to WOT.
I think your fighting trash breaking loose from the fuel lines.
however you can always use a multimeter to actually look at ciol primary input voltage. its not hard.,
 
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