Trim & Tilt Relays or Solenoids??

1988 85hp Force outboard - Have had troubles with tilt since I acquired the boat this past summer. Worked OK most of the time, but always leaked down in just a few minutes when lifted up to launch or reload boat. Usually popped circuit breaker several times before I could get the motor lifted and wiring from tilt motor was getting hot. I believe the boat came with a 2 wire motor and was changed to a 3 wire by previous owners. I'm in the process of cleaning and rebuilding the whole unit but I'm wondering if I have the proper relays or solenoids for the 3 wire motor. What I have look to be relays with the following markings. Bosch / 12V20/30A 0332204150. Any ideas??

Re: Trim & Tilt Relays or Solenoids??

They're probably right. 2-wire motors use relays that typically plug into sockets. 3-wire motors can use either relays, or solenoids where the connections screw on. It would require a bit of rewiring of the relay sockets for a complete conversion.

Three-wires have a common ground, and putting 12v+ to one of the others moves it one way and the other the other way.

Two-wires just swap polarity via the two relays. To do that, power has to go through the triggered relay and return through the static relay.

Re: Trim & Tilt Relays or Solenoids??

chrysler force 3w TnT motors usually have a 10 foot long tail and do not use relays. A good motor should develop 700-900PSI on 10 amps. It should be able to lift and hold engine without blowing fuses. The 3w motors use different oil lines than 2w motors. Look to see if oil lines are straight and parrallel to engine lines. If they have been pushed or pulled up/down by about 1/2" then someone retrofitted a 3w motor into a 2w system and bent the oil lines to line up fittings. If the oil lines are striaght then someone put in a 3w hydraulic system and used 2w electricals.

You can determine cause of bleed down by raising engine, blocking in place, and putting a standard 3/16" brake plug (inverted flare fitting - available at most auto parts stores) into bottom of tilt cylinder. Once plugged remove the blocking and see if engine bleeds down. If yes then tilt tube is problem. If no then valve body is problem.

Fixing valve bodies is tricky and I would never reccommend it. I sell stuff to fix these system on Ebay but I will never sell valve body repair kits. Half the people would end up ruining their valve bodies. About 3/4ths of the pumps i get that are ruined beyond repair are becuase somebody took the valve body apart and couldn't get them back together. The other 1/4th is multiple stripped ports that render the pump more expensive to repair than replace. Take off the upper oil lines from cylinders first to avoid stripped threads. If you decide to rebuild the valve body yourself then set up a clean area where you can't possibly lose any parts. Also be very careful with your retaining rings. Stainless rings are almost impossible to find, cost over $1 each, and may require buying box of 100.

Fixing tilt tubes is pretty easy. Put spanner wrench into vice and push ram hard into sanner while using 12" bar to turn base of ram. If it stubborn then heat with propane until rubber bubbles. You'll need a new rod wiper if you use heat. You should be replacing upper shaft o-ring anyway. Neither part is available from Force. Hydraulics store should have both in stock.

Regarding your motor. stick a 20A slo-blo fuse inline with power and see if it blows. If yes then something is wrong with your motor. If no then something is wrong with your circuit breaker. 3w motors should have 3c-SO cord (#10 or $12) from switch directly to motor. fuse/breaker should be on power feed into switch. Switch should be DPDT momentary contact with center-off. 20A absolute minimum rating.

Re: Trim & Tilt Relays or Solenoids??

Thanks for the quick replies to my post. RRitt, I don't have the whole unit off yet, at this point, just the motor / pump unit. I'm going to finish removing the rest, make sure I can get it all apart and buy an o-ring kit from you off Ebay. Any thing else I might need? I would only disassemble the pump as a last resort. The motor wasn't running at all when I removed it, but is running now.
The movable side of the contacts in the motor was pushed up against the top cap and shorting things out. I cleaned up the insides, put the motor back together without the pump and the motor at least runs now. The wires from the motor were all cut off to about 4-5 foot, and connections to relays in the engine cover are just crimped connectors. That's one reason I thought there might be a problem with the relays not being right. Thanks for the help guys. This is my first boat and I'm pretty boat stupid, but having fun. I worked quite a few years as a motorcycle and small engine mechanic before becoming a machinist, so I'm not afraid to tackle anything as far as repairs, as long as I can find some good information and have the necessary tools for the job. Alan

Re: Trim & Tilt Relays or Solenoids??

either buy new gaskets or buy some 1/32" rubberized cork gasket material and cut new gaskets for motor. #1 cause of motor failure is bad seals letting water get inside. that's probably the root cause of your prior motor problems. did you check to make sure that brush card wasn't cracked? also, there should be a little ball bearing (5/32"??) on top of armature. if that's missing it could all happen again.

Re: Trim & Tilt Relays or Solenoids??

Hey RRit! I am always fixing pumps and valve bodies. please post the ebay address. If you will not sell valve bodies, please tell where they can be purchased. I usually take them apart and repair them but sometimes I slip. I hate buying a whole pump when a 10 cent O ring is the problem. Thanks. TonyonMemory@yahoo.com

Re: Trim & Tilt Relays or Solenoids??

hey Frank! i don't sell pumps & motors & systems. I just fix broken ones. I think either API or Arco is selling the valve bodies these days for around $250. BTW - you should be using viton instead of a 10 cent hardware store o-ring. It'll last longer.