First post, Need advice

bashman · Feb 1, 2007

Hello all

This is my first post on this site, I was steered here from a duck hunting forum I post on quite a bit.

Here's the problem. I have a '78 Johnson 25HP long shaft motor with remote steering/throttle that according to the local repair shop needs head work, new starter, and probably new power packs. I am not willing to put that kind of money into the motor as I had hoped to be replacing the boat this year.

I have no clue what to do with this motor now. I have never had any problems with the lower unit, shifts good and all. Would anything off of this motor be worth anything to somebody? I'm guessing somebody could get it going if they had the know how, it ran my 14' jon boat down the river pretty good before the starter went out and a mouse chewed on a wire or two.

I guess my question is, if i could find somebody who would want it, what's a fair asking price? Ebay? Some other place? I'm really no good at selling stuff.

Thanks in advance for your advice

iwombat · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Welcome to iboats.

To answer your question, yes it's worth something to someone. Depending on how much work you want to do you may be able to get quite a bit by parting it out over ebay. On the other hand, if you just want to get it off your hands you might try listing it on your local craigslist with the description you just gave and sell it as a unit.

Take a look on ebay and see what a lower unit, powerhead, carbs, etc are all going for. That should help you figure out what you want to do.

On the other hand, from what you've listed, you may have a pretty simple repair on your hands.

iwombat · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Looking at what I said above, you must have three hands.

WillyBWright · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

A head gasket and a power pack are no big deal. Do you still have the recoil start? If you make the motor runable, just needing an optional electric start motor, it would be worth the investment.

Head Gasket

Power Pack

Starter Motor

You might be able to get the starter repaired. Many auto-electric rebuilders can do yours too.

bashman · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

It is actually the head that needs work not the head gasket. The mechanic checked the compression and it was around 100psi instead of the normal 150. Plus he said it appeared there was some cylinder damage. Somebody put helicoils in the spark plug holes and didn't do a very good job so they leak just a little there.

I ran this motor with no problems the last time I had it out, then it wouldn't start this year. I had thought about trying to replace the power packs and try pull starting it. I'm just not sure how big of a deal the wireing is, a few wires look pretty frayed.

If i don't have the starter hooked up at all will i have to do anything with the battery hookups before i go to pull start it? There won't be any grounding issues or anything like that i guess?

WillyBWright · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Just make sure the cables don't ground or connect.

iwombat · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

As for finding a head. Keep your eye on ebay, heads for sale come up quite often.

You could probably have yours repaired and re-coiled by a machinist for not too much $$ too.

Anyway, at least you now know you've got something much more than a boat-anchor. And, it is worth either fixing and selling, selling as-is, or parting out.

Or . . . keeping and using on your next boat.

JB · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Howdy, Bashman.

Welcome to iboats.

Your mechanic is full of crap, Bashman. 100PSI on both cylinders is quite acceptable compression. I therefore am not prepared to believe anything else he told you.

Now suppose you tell us exactly what is happening and we can get your engine purring again.

You can start by going to the Engine FAQs section and running through the basic troubleshooting in "Outboard won't start".

My guess is that there is a very good chance that the ONLY thing wrong with your engine is a poor electrical connection in the high current starter circuit.

iwombat · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Y'know that's a great point. I sure wish I'd made it.

Where do I find this "normal" 150 psi, anyway? Has ANYONE reporting compression on this forum posted 150? I can't think of any.

If compression checks out to 100psi for real, forget all that stuff I said about getting a new head on ebay.

tashasdaddy · Feb 1, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

do a compression check your self, with all the plugs out, using the rope start. then do a spark test with a $10 spark tester from suto parts store. if you have compresion over 100 and with in 10% of each other, and a good sharp spark. then make sure you have fuel flow to the cylinders.

bashman · Feb 2, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Well fellas

I went out and looked at the wiring last night, There are three wires coming out of a connector and going to the power packs, the black one, I'm assuming ground, is in bad shape. It was frayed and I tried to cut that section out, but the wire was all rusty and very brittle. I'll try replacing some of the wiring i can see needs to be replaced. Then I'll get me a spark tester and a compression tester and see what's going on. I really hope this thing works. Still a little scared I'll put $300 in this thing and it still won't work.

I'm going to keep plugging away for now, just wish it wasn't so darn cold right now. My barn isn't heated, it doesn't even have doors!

bashman · Feb 2, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

quick question, is a capacative discharge box the same as a power pack?

mikesea · Feb 2, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

You can eliminate the plugs by using "bullet"connectors"they will still allow ease of disconnect,or just butt connect ,but be sure to put some liquid tape for moistue protection. I don't know where you live,but this guy put this post in about 3 weeks ago,maybe you can use parts from his 35 hp 1978,but he is in Sweden?? http://forums.iboats.com/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=28;gtid=1244411

bashman · Feb 6, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Well it looks like I just won an auction on ebay for a powerpack with coils, plus a few other little things i hopefully won't need. The price was right so we'll see how things go from here. Now I just need a starter at a decent price and a head.

If I don't come up with a head I was thinking of having mine repaired. It has already been stripped out and fixed once and appearantly needs the same done again. My spark plugs already have helicoils on them now, can this repair be preformed again? Didn't know just how many times this could be done before it was unrepairable.

Also is it as easy as it looks to pull the head off? Just unbolt it? Then after the repair, a new gasket and bolt it back up? Does the gasket go on with a sealer and what is the torque spec on the head bolts?

sorry for all the questions, I'm just anxious to get this thing fixed.

tashasdaddy · Feb 6, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

you better atleast pick up a seloc manual.

http://www.iboats.com/mall/?category_id=251023&cart_id=613867261&session_id=341941088&view_id=214855

fireman57 · Feb 8, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Or go to your local library and look at their manual. Where are you at? Do you have a big dealer near you that has junk engines out back that you could just take a head off for half price of a new one? Sone just have bad lower units or they had weak compression but you just need the top to screw your plugs in/

bashman · Feb 8, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

I'm near Owensboro, KY, not any huge dealers here, but I'll call around. I've been watching ebay quite a bit and haven't come up with a head just yet.

If I can get it to run for now I can be a little more patient in finding the head. I really hope replacing the power pack works. I hope to have it soon.

JB · Feb 8, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Did you do the troubleshooting, bashman?

What happened when you squirted fuel into the carb?

I would like you to prove that the ignition and the starter are bad before you start throwing parts at it. One plug not firing is not enough to prove the ignition bad or to prevent the engine from starting.

Throwing parts at it before eliminating other possible causes of your symptoms is a sure way to spend the $300 you worry about. . . and not fix the engine.

fireman57 · Feb 9, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Bashman, I'm just west of Evansville. You do have a parts place near you. It is the same one that I use. Can't remember the dealers name now but it is just across the bridge on hwy 45. He is about five miles south of Reo. Dang, can't think of his name right now. Older age getting to me. Give me a call at 800-986-3637 and I'll see if I can give you a hand. Is it Tyler boats? Anyway, call me. Scott.

bashman · Feb 9, 2007

Re: First post, Need advice

Scott it is Tyler boats, they don't have a head for this model unfortunately. I was hoping they would, but no luck. Thanks for the help though, I appreciate it.

JB, I confirmed that I don't have spark with a spark checker. The closer I look at the wiring the worse it looks. There are a few wires I've tried to repair that just basically fall apart when I try to strip them. That's why I got the powerpack with coils when I had the chance to get them cheap. That will replace much of the wiring in question. I'm not going to buy a head until I can sort out the other issues, unless one comes up pretty darn cheap. I'll post up again when I get the power pack installed.

Another question. The spark plugs on my boat are Champion L78V's I think the threads are 14-1.25. I'm trying to figure out what my helicoils are, but I can't find a thread to match. Anybody know what would be standard for this type of thing?

First post, Need advice

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