hard start when cold

I have a 97 mariner 90hp. It is very hard to start when cold. Takes about 15 or 20 minutes to finally get it to fire. Now if I take the cover off and spray a small bit of starting fluid in the carbs it fires right up when cold. I do hear a clicking sound when I try to choke it. Is that the enricher? What could cause it to be so hard to start when cold. After she fires up it cranks on one turn of the key. I don't want to use ether everytime to start it as I know this is not good for the engine. any help will be greatly appreciated...thank you JV

Re: hard start when cold

Keep using ether and you will be looking some serious engine repair. There is no lubricant in ether. Use a spray bottle with a fuel/oil mix. Its cheaper and will be better for the engine. Pop the small hose off the enrichener and hit the key with the key pushed in. If no fuel comes out of the enrichener you found the problem. Are you squeezing the primer bulb prior to attempting to start the engine. If not, that's also a problem since the system needs to be pressurized for the enrichener to work. Are you using the fast idle lever?

Re: hard start when cold

Do Not use the fast idle lever when cranking. Leave it down. Raise it only after it starts. Keep pushing the key as you start. ( You'd be suprised how many people think it sets an Automatic Choke. )

The single biggest mistake people make starting the 75-90 triples and 100-125 quads is using that warm-up lever while cranking. Something to do with the way the carbs are designed. I didn't believe it at first either, but once I stopped raising the lever, I noticed a HUGE difference. Those are the only 2-stroke Mercs for which that is true.

Also, somebody decided to start adjusting the upper carb idle mixture lean to allow for smoother idle. The 90s especially are rough idlers. But by adjusting that carb lean, it makes them hard to start, and holeshot lags badly. They should all be set the same, about 1-1/4 turns (give or take 1/4). I know the service manual says to set it lean, but ignore that. Trust me!

Re: hard start when cold

I have a 75 Triple and it "wants" the fast idle lever raised. A fishing buddy has a 50 triple that wants the same treatment. Those engines want lots of fuel and since there is no automatic fast idle you need to give it one. The lever does not have to fully up -- just off idle a little.

Re: hard start when cold

ok I will try those suggestions. I will try pushing the key often as I try to start. As for the idle lever. I used to start the engine up with a push of the key to choke and the lever slightly up..minimum...and one or to turns of the key and she was up and running..but as I said I will try those suggestions and post on the outcome..thanks guys...

Re: hard start when cold

Try this sequence: 1) Squeeze the primer bulb until firm. 2) Raise fast idle lever about 1/3 up. 3) Turn key to RUN (not start) 4) Push key in and hold for count of 6 or 8. 5) Turn key to start. If the engine does not fire quickly, continue to hold the key in until it does. Lower the fast idle lever. Lower it just enough to provide a minute or two of comfortable idle. Then lower it the rest of the way. If the engine acts if it wants to die during the warm up process, just push the key in momentarily to give it a little extra shot. Remember, there is no automatic choke, there is no automatic fast idle so "you" need to help the engine during start and warm up. Those controls would not be there if they weren't necessary.

Re: hard start when cold

Make sure you have a good fuel supply. No leaks vented Etc. Clean carbs. A good tune up. Then Pump-R-Til-She Drools And It will start fine . Never use starting fluid. If you want it to last do it right., Tim

Re: hard start when cold

Ok guys, I respect your opinions but I have a 90 hp triple that I have learned to start; especially on a cold day like when I was out a couple of days ago.

My starting sequence, learned by experience on this engine:

The bulb has to be pumped till firm

Engine vertical (preferred) or slightly lower in the rear

I have the Qk 2000 remote so I push in the button on the throttle (disengaging it from the shifter) and 1/3 forward (10 o'clock) is ok for positioning.....I keep one hand on it so as to control the rpm's once she lights off....may want more or less throttle....depends on the engine's temperament that day.

I turn to the RUN position on the key, push in and hold for more like 20-30 seconds.....have tried shorted times but the engine hits but doesn't take.

If I am on the starter longer than 10-15 sec I go back and resqueeze the bulb to fill everything back up with pressurized fuel. Then go back thru the key hold routine then go to START and she usually kicks off.

Always wants to die at least once, usually twice...if you let it, so I am ready with the key and throttle and when she balks, push in till it recovers and let go while tweaking the throttle to keep it running.

I leave it revving at around 1500 to 2000 (1500 preferred but hard to control) for a couple of minutes. Good time to don your life preserver and check for anything in your way.

Center the throttle (idle) and she is ready to back off the trailer.

Usually it will take the load of reversing and not die after this procedure.

Like silver said, the click you hear is the "fuel enrichment valve" opening and allowing pressurized fuel into the engine via a tube running to each carb....you need the bulb tight to have the fuel pressure to cause this to happen. Merc hasn't used a "choke" on these engines for several 10's of years. They figured that a pressurized squirt of fuel was more effective than a choke that required engine vacuum to get the fuel where it can do some good. I guess I like it ok.

After the first start of the day, unless it has been off for half hour or more, a simple touch of the key and she lights off. If she doesn't hit immediately, due to sitting, I just push in and hold for like 10 sec and she usually hits. Only after a lengthy off period would I revert back to the cold start procedure.

HTH

Mark

Re: hard start when cold

Just curious Mark -- what plugs are you running in your 90 (surface gap or regular)? Although surface gap plugs are recommended, I use conventional plugs in my 75 and it starts, trolls, idles and runs beautifully. I've had outboards and snowmobiles that recommended surface gap plugs that seem to work fine if you are running wide open all the time, but I dislike them at anything less than WOT.

Re: hard start when cold

Ok Silver.......you just got my undivided attention.

I have thought about surface gap plugs for a long time, and frankly I don't like them. Why? I don't like the idea of having a carbon path directly between the hot and cold electrodes. Seems very self defeating. Don't like the idea of the ignition having to have a rate of rise of the applied voltage fast enough to jump before the surface creep bleeds off the charge. Yucko :devil:

So my man, I am all ears and will try a conventional plug if you will do me the honors of telling me what brand and number you feel comfortable with.

And, thanks for the tip. It just might cure my "clutch dog rattle" annoyance and save me the price of a 4 cylinder engine. 8)

Mark

Re: hard start when cold

Mark -- I run NGK's. The number is BP8HN10. The fuel you use, how you run, and carb jetting will determine plug color but this plug should get you in the ballpark. These two engines are so close to each other I suspect this plug will work for your 90 as well but I wouldn't expect having to go more than one number either way to fine tune. I've done plug checks after a six mile wide open run and they are perfect. Our fuel is 10% corn squeezin's up here but I don't know if that will make a difference.

Re: hard start when cold

Thanks man. I assume they are conventional and they are already gapped. Guess I use the gap on the plug or do I need to change it?

On the fuel, we are getting both here so we'll see.

I don't run for long periods at WOT so I probably won't have the problem WOT might induce.....and I guess I am learning that the surface gaps are designed for extended WOT operation, especially at a heavy load and that is why Merc uses them.....dunno.


Agree on the engines being nearly the same. Plugs should run the same.

Thanks again,
Mark

Re: hard start when cold

Gap them at .030 - .035. They will be close out of the box.

Re: hard start when cold

Done deal man, thanks.

Will run some down and put her in.

Mark

Re: hard start when cold

"Keep pushing the key as you start. ( You'd be suprised how many people think it sets an Automatic Choke. )"

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" I will try pushing the key often as I try to start. "

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I think WBW called it... HOLD the choke on (keep pushing the key in) while you crank it. Release the key once it starts, but be prepared to give the key a little push in ("bump" the choke) if it wants to die.

Re: hard start when cold

On pushing the key.

Son just bought a used 150. Previous owner said the engine was hard to start. He took us out for a test drive before the purchase and I noticed that he jabbed the key repeatedly in the START position and said that it was his way of getting it started. Don't remember if he had the fast idle up or not but I had never seen anyone jab the key like that especially with no pre-priming in RUN.

After the purchase, a lifting of the fast idle all the way up, priming of the bulb, and about 20 -30 seconds of pressing on the key in RUN and within 10 seconds of START she had fired right up......just the way I start my 90.....course if I'm not fast enough my 90 will die at least once.

Pushing the key energizes the "fuel enrichment solenoid" which allows pressurized fuel (from pumping the bulb) to enter the carbs directly and get into the engine. Haven't looked closely at the 150, but on my 90 3 cyl, there is a hose manifold going from the output of the solenoid to the side of each of my 3 carbs. Not sure what happens internally after that; i.e. where exactly the fuel is injected.

Also, after the engine lights off, if it attempts to die from lack of fuel (lean) a simple pressing of the key until the engine recovers (couple of seconds) will usually make your start a success. If you aren't fast enough on the key and it dies, following the same procedure will/should be successful the second time.

HTH

Mark

Re: hard start when cold

JV, I have been watching this tread but didn't want to get involed with a the differant advise floating around, but think I'll get my feet wet, first Willy is right if you open the butterflies on the carbs it will lose vacume and not start well, you can give it a little throttle to help it start but only use the spark advance part, not enough to open the butterflies. Silvertip is right starting fluid will trash your motor. Mark is right they will start easier tucked under, but wrong about the primer system being pressurized it is not.
Some things to ck, first ck the lines for kinks-next ck the enrichment valve for operation-remove the supply hose and ck for fuel input-then remove the output hose and push the key to ck output flow- then pump the carbs back up and ch the flow at each one of the manifold fittings the bottom will flow the most the middle and top will not flow as much, they depend on engine vacume to help them along, if even the bottom primer fitting has flow the engine should start providing the butterflies are closed. Hope this helps-Bob

Re: hard start when cold

Bob, when I said pressurized, I am referring to the pressure you get from pumping fuel into the engine till the bulb is firm; not some kind of engine generated pressurization system.

Silver, I got the plugs yesterday from NAPA. Had to buy a box of 10 but what the heck.....a box of plugs is cheaper than a new engine. May put 6 in the son's engine if I like the performance.

I measured the piston clearance from the plug seating surface to insure that i had adequate clearance (just in case) and I was surprised at the (large) clearance. Sorta figured the piston would come up higher, course being a low compression engine, maybe not.

I lit it off for a second after installation and it lit off real fast without using the fast idle (did use the prime however). Soon as it warms up a tad, I'll give her a test drive.

Mark

Re: hard start when cold

I would use the same precautions regarding piston clearance on your sons motor. I don't expect it to be any different than yours but one can never be too cautious. I would also take plug readings several times during initial use. On his motor you may need to dial things in a little more -- but then again maybe not.

Re: hard start when cold

Ok, Thanks for the info. Will keep tabs on the plugs as you have on yours, to insure they are doing what they are supposed to.

Mark