Force / Farce Engines

Hey guys! Lets not get down on Force engines. Remember what they are: Chrysler/ Force were originally West Bend. The technology of the basic block, crank, and pistons is old and the engine is a relatively inexpensive entry level engine. There is really nothing wrong with them. They serve the purpose for which they were designed. I like them because they are so simple to work on.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

Frank,

I've never had a problem with Force. However, I understand what they are and where they stood in the market.

Unfortuneately, most were sold as entry level engines to people that were clueless about boats and even more so about engines.

They're fine, if meticulously maintained.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

Sure they were entry level engines but to give them a blanket discription of not having proper care is like saying anyone buying at the limit of their budget can't or won't give the engine proper care.I think we can be sure that they had their share of poor care just as any motor might.
Many times we have seen folks here with their $500 boat and motor determined to give it the best care possible.There are plenty of first time Evinrude/Merc,Honda etc buyers that know zilch and I don't think these motors recieve any better care than a
Force.Just because they cost more.I know if I was spending all my fun dollars on a boat outfit I'd be taking the best care possible.
In my very limited exposure to Force motors I was not impressed. And then you add the dwindling parts supply
and Its like swimming upstream all the time.
If a person likes to tinker and search the Force is the motor for them.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

Good Point steelespike.
I try to avoid purchases from "rich kids". You know, the ones born with a silver spoon in their mouth and a bank account that allows them to buy at will. They are too busy having fun to pay any attention to maintenance or to take the time to learn about proper use. Many would just as soon neglect and beat the snot out of their property, then dump it and buy a new one.

The frugal owner that appreciates the value and enjoyment that a boat ( or car, etc) can bring, usually takes better care of their toys.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

Ive owned my foce for a little over a year, ive had good luck with it and im sure it doesnt hurt me doing all i can to keep it running.

in light of my father not being able to use his boat anymore im seriously thinking of upgrading from my 89 bayliner bowrider with 89 force 125 lower half and with a early 80's powerhead to a 00' Sailfish Center console with a 00' Yahmaha 150 HPDI 4 stoker i have not had much problems with my force but i just cant put to much trust in it im always worried to follow friends into places if i break down i know im screwed or to go to far from shore

if i were to upgrade what would the best way be to get rid of my other boat?

and as far as fuel efficiency how good is this Yahmaha?

Re: Force / Farce Engines

HPDI 4 stoker

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HPDI and Four Stroke are two completely different animals. HPDI is 2-stroke with direct injection. 4-stroke is 4 stroke. like a car engine.

best way be to get rid of my other boat?

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Place a classified ad here on iboats.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

Steelspike and Roscoe,

I didn't expect the backlash. I was defending them.

Nobody can deny that Bayliner was/is an entry level boat. Their whole marketing strategy centers around-price. That is where many Force engines were installed, for the reason of; "price leader".

Does that make Force bad-nope.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

I understand your point and your support of the Force
and no one wanted Force to succeed more than me when they were introduced;
Its just that I feel assuming poor care because of being an entry level boat/motor is not accurate.As would assuming better care with with a top line Etec.I will agree the Force is probably more sensitive to poor care.Thus their poor reputation.They do have 2 good points, lower price and maintenance friendly design.Unfortunately these go along with poor resale and dwindling parts supply.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

They do have 2 good points, lower price and maintenance friendly design.

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I think they would have done themselves a favor by adding some conveniences like oil injection. That would have added to the price though and then they would be Mercury's.:^8)

Just kidding.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

I didn't expect the backlash. I was defending them.

Yes, me too. I think we're all on the same page here.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

first off, i think one needs to distinguish chrysler force from mercury force. Mercury made some changes that made the engine significantly less reliable. Most notably the reed valves and the stators. If you pay attention to the dates on all those blown powerheads and broken stators you will notice that the engines before 1991 lasted until they were just plain worn out wheras the post mercury engines have a tendency to self destruct regardless of care. Assumming that you have a pre-mercury engine then it will last almost forever with a modest annual maintenance program. Furthermore, most of the maintenance parts are automotive industry standards rather than marine and the cost of parts to maintian the engine will be one fourth that of competing products from OMC or Mercury. For the quasi-competent home mechanic a chrysler force will have a much lower entry cost, last just as long, and have a significantly lower cost of ownership than competing engines from mercury or OMC. So it all depends what year you have and what you want out of the engine. If what you want is a reliable motor that is inexpensive to buy and inexpensive to own then there is none better than pre-mercury chrysler/force. If you're looking for a motor that you can take to the local marina and throw money at it until it is fixed then any Force is a bad buy because they're probably going to give it to their least qualified mechanic.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

Frank said:

Hey guys! Lets not get down on Force engines. Remember what they are: Chrysler/ Force were originally West Bend. The technology of the basic block, crank, and pistons is old and the engine is a relatively inexpensive entry level engine. There is really nothing wrong with them. They serve the purpose for which they were designed. I like them because they are so simple to work on.

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Re: Force / Farce Engines

Well i bought mine in 1999 and still have it ,shes well used all year round even here in Scotland iv replaced the stator the starter moter and the tilt trim moter and iv got a wee problem just now which im going to throw money at (switch box) £120 quid shes starting great but cuts out under load last trip she limped home as if firing on 2 cylinders its a 1993 force 70h.p roscoe advised finding the problem 1st (good advice) but it seems easier ,although a gamble to try the switch box hope its not one of the coils.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

baboonbum,

stay on top of your reeds. force engines cold sneeze and mercury reeds crack. cracked reeds can mean not enough oil into engine ... which is a bad thing. You're at that age where it should be checked. A new set of boyensen reeds is only $125 or so. In some years you can still put in a chrysler reed plate which makes the engine less responsive and less powerful ... but they rarely break.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

RRitt: I've always wondered about the force reeds. How much extra power would they produce say on a 140 Chrysler.
As far as Boyesen reeds, I just don't like the look of them but I have never had any experience with them. I understand that they have a definite lifespan, and I think the company recommends that you go one jet size larger. What has your experience been? They are located about ten miles away from me and I still might think of using them. thanks!

Re: Force / Farce Engines

i have no idea frank. all i have heard about boyensen is from this forum and the comments were all very positive. If I understand correctly they are still composite material which means they will still crack because the force will still cold sneeze. $125 is cheap. If I was stuck with a mercury then maybe I'd just put boyensen into a 3/4 year maintenance rotation and not worry about it.

It's not just stators and reeds either. The mercury trim pump isn't as durable as the pre-'91 prestolite either. It is a better design and should be more durable but they went cheap on some critical o-rings and the things have a lot of premature bleed down. IMO - that just about sums up what mercury did to force. They went through the engine trying to figure out how to make everything cheaper without paying much attention to the consequence. They nickle and dimed the engine to death. When it turned out less durable they blamed the engine.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

I owne a 1997 Force 15hp. (by Mercury)

What is are reed valves and stators ? and what do they do ?

Tx

Re: Force / Farce Engines

reeds and stators may not be a concern on Force 15. Hopefully one of our resident gurus can tell you. My knowledge of the problems only encompasses 3/4/5 cylinder engines.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

I think you want a simple explanation: Reeds are the valves. They take the place of the intake valves in your auto engine. They are thin flat steel plates and look similar to the reeds on woodwind instruments. Thus they are called reeds. They are mounted on the plate behind the carb, and open and close to retain the air inducted through the carburetor. I think by stators, RRit means the plates that retain the reeds and keep them from opening too far and eventually breaking. He could also mean the plate the reeds are mounted on. At any rate I don't think there are aftermarket reed assemblies for small engines like yours. But I don't know, I never looked for them.

Re: Force / Farce Engines

the stators that self-destruct are the thing under the flywheel with all the wire windings. It's kind of like the 2-stroke version of an alternator. Mercury tried to go universal with the electrical system and what they got was universal failure. They used same stuff on mercury outboards and got same problem.