Project Boat Power Option Dilemma

Mark42 · Dec 27, 2006

Have been looking at 80's and 90's 18-19 foot cuddie cabins. Plan is to convert the cuddy to a pocket cruiser with enclosed cabin.

One of the most expensive parts of a boat is the power. I had planned on using a 100 hp 4 cycle outboard because I feel comfortable with outboards and have experience with them. Also plan on used or rebuilt to conserve expenses. Prices are about $4000 - 6000. That is still a good chunck of money.

Now the problem I have is most boats I see in Cuddy Cabin are inboard powered. Typically a 4 cylinder Mercuiser setup.

So, even if the boat has a bad outdrive, it can be replaced for about $2000 compared to $6000 for the outboard. And still have money left over for engine repairs.

Given the above, which way would you go,keep looking for an outboard powered boat and incure the expense of an outboard motor (I want a 4 cycle), or go with the more common inboard setups and have to go through a big learning curve with inboards?

The boat will be used mostly in salt water moored for a week or two at a time at most. Otherwise, she will be a trailer queen.

Thanks for your comments!

Mark

But I

SCJoe · Dec 27, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Mark
Can you expand on,

"go through a big learning curve with inboards?"

I'm not sure what you mean.

Tail_Gunner · Dec 27, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Mark most of the negative comment's here on I/O's are based on ignorance. You have a good mind there really very simple and cheap.......... and way to easy to maintain......... salt or otherwise.

tashasdaddy · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

mark, i'm and outboard man, i've had i/o's. they are a little harder to work on, but really not that bad. gaining access is the worst part. with the size boat you are looking at, i'd go V 6 atleast. the 4 bangers are dependable, but lack power for a heavier boat. watch the mercruiser v6's in the 96-01 era. the ones that used the one piece exhaust manifold. they are very expensive to replace. if you can find one with the enclosed freshwater cooling system all the better. as far as salt water keep it flushed with salt away, and maintain the exhaust manifolds.

alden135 · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Mark42 said:
Have been looking at 80's and 90's 18-19 foot cuddie cabins. Plan is to convert the cuddy to a pocket cruiser with enclosed cabin.

One of the most expensive parts of a boat is the power. I had planned on using a 100 hp 4 cycle outboard

You may find that to be underpowered after adding the cabin. My 20' in the avatar has a 120 and is underpowered.

Everyone in my family who has owned an i/o and used it in salt has had problems.

4Winns2 · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Mark42 said:
Have been looking at 80's and 90's 18-19 foot cuddie cabins. Plan is to convert the cuddy to a pocket cruiser with enclosed cabin.

One of the most expensive parts of a boat is the power. I had planned on using a 100 hp 4 cycle outboard because I feel comfortable with outboards and have experience with them. Also plan on used or rebuilt to conserve expenses. Prices are about $4000 - 6000. That is still a good chunck of money.

Now the problem I have is most boats I see in Cuddy Cabin are inboard powered. Typically a 4 cylinder Mercuiser setup.

So, even if the boat has a bad outdrive, it can be replaced for about $2000 compared to $6000 for the outboard. And still have money left over for engine repairs.

Given the above, which way would you go,keep looking for an outboard powered boat and incure the expense of an outboard motor (I want a 4 cycle), or go with the more common inboard setups and have to go through a big learning curve with inboards?

The boat will be used mostly in salt water moored for a week or two at a time at most. Otherwise, she will be a trailer queen.

Thanks for your comments!

Mark

But I

Mark:

I bought a 90' Four Winns, Freedom 195 cuddy with a cracked 4.3 litre OMC block. I called a local engine builder here in Syracuse and picked a long block for 1.7k. I had it installed for 1k. So, that will give you some idea of cost on an I/O compared to an outboard if find something I/O like that needs repowering. The outdrive replacement cost I would say is right around 2k.

I have had both outboards and I/O's my whole life. What I like about my I/O cuddy is that I have more deck space in the stern for swimming, watching the water, and water sports. I've yet to be on a boat with a big 4 banger outboard so I don't really know how quiet they are. Mine purrs beneath the engine cover and, for me, this is the biggest benefit of being out on the water: little engine noise.

It is true that there is a little more to winterizing the boat come fall but that can be learned like anything. If it were my vote, I would go with the I/O cuddy if you can find one. The only outboard cuddys I've ever seen are usually Bayliners. Best of luck in your decision search.

JasonJ · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

I myself would lean towards outboard. I/Os are not difficult to work on. The things I don't like about I/Os is the increased complexity of the outdrive system. While they can be reliable if maintained, they also are more likely to fail, and more expensive. I don't like the thought of replacing the risers, those things are not cheap. I also don't like having the ability of my boat floating to rely on rubber bellows that will fail eventually. Yeah, I know, just maintain and replace regularly, but thats the thing with I/Os. There are more things to have to monitor, and maintenance is more expensive than an outboard. Lastly, it is far easier to repower with an outboard than I/O if you are looking for more power.

All I can say is I see a lot more I/O boats at the repair shop than outboards, and everyone I know with I/O has had to sit the season out trying to build up money to fix the broken outdrive. Everyone I know with outboards just keep on using their boats.

And I don't have to tell you that if you do go I/O, go Mercruiser....

Mark42 · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

alden135 said:
Mark42 said:

Have been looking at 80's and 90's 18-19 foot cuddie cabins. Plan is to convert the cuddy to a pocket cruiser with enclosed cabin.

One of the most expensive parts of a boat is the power. I had planned on using a 100 hp 4 cycle outboard

Click to expand...

You may find that to be underpowered after adding the cabin. My 20' in the avatar has a 120 and is underpowered.

Everyone in my family who has owned an i/o and used it in salt has had problems.

Thanks for the input. 100hp probably is underpowered by most peoples ruler, but I really only need to cruise at 25 or so and the speed calculators indicate the boat (with full load) should make 30+ with 100hp. Most of the I/O's I see are 140hp and claim to have top speeds around 40mph. Hopefully, the planned conversion won't add more than 300 - 400 lbs to the boat. (and I plan on compensating the weight gain by eliminating unnecessary heavy items like electronic navagation system, anchors, dual batteries, PFD's, flashlights, bilge pumps, first aid kits, fire extinguishers, etc) 8)

So what is your top speed?

Mark42 · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

SCJoe said:
Mark
Can you expand on,

"go through a big learning curve with inboards?"

I'm not sure what you mean.

My uncle had an I/O in a new boat. It was always broken. He was probably doing something wrong, but I really never had to do maintenance on one. Just rode around in them. But I know there is more to it than just changing the oil and filter. 8)

alden135 · Dec 28, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

So what is your top speed?

About 30 with a light load (me + 2). My biggest complaint is the time it takes to get up on plane. My boat is rated for a 175 hp max but Sunbird equipped them with the 115's and 120's as standard power.

I use a lot of fuel when I run it wide open like that.

Deep sixing your safety equipment is a great idea and should increase your beer capacity by a case or two.

4Winns2 · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Mark42 said:
alden135 said:

Mark42 said:

Have been looking at 80's and 90's 18-19 foot cuddie cabins. Plan is to convert the cuddy to a pocket cruiser with enclosed cabin.

One of the most expensive parts of a boat is the power. I had planned on using a 100 hp 4 cycle outboard

Click to expand...

You may find that to be underpowered after adding the cabin. My 20' in the avatar has a 120 and is underpowered.

Everyone in my family who has owned an i/o and used it in salt has had problems.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. 100hp probably is underpowered by most peoples ruler, but I really only need to cruise at 25 or so and the speed calculators indicate the boat (with full load) should make 30+ with 100hp. Most of the I/O's I see are 140hp and claim to have top speeds around 40mph. Hopefully, the planned conversion won't add more than 300 - 400 lbs to the boat. (and I plan on compensating the weight gain by eliminating unnecessary heavy items like electronic navagation system, anchors, dual batteries, PFD's, flashlights, bilge pumps, first aid kits, fire extinguishers, etc) 8)

So what is your top speed?

Well, let me start with more is always better when it comes to horsepower on any boat. My Four Winns 20 foot cuddy has a dry weight of just over a ton, or closer yet, 2.4 thousand pounds. With the OMC 4.3 V6 rated at 175HP, I get close to 47 MPH with just me in the boat which is generally faster than I would care to go. You would think that would be enough until you start adding beer and people to the equation. When I have four adults on board, the hole shot seems forever. Granted, my boat is a little ass heavy. This is true of all cuddys because on a sunny day, nobody wants to be in the cuddy and all the weight is aft. I have to summon people from the rear of the boat to come and stand by me at the helm to get out of the hole- -a little embarassing. When I repowered, I really wish I had gone with a V8 but that it wouldn't have converted well in the engine compartment that I have. At the size boat you're talking about, I would say that minimally you need 175hp. My two cents.

4Winns2 · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Mark42 said:
SCJoe said:

Mark
Can you expand on,

"go through a big learning curve with inboards?"

I'm not sure what you mean.

Click to expand...

My uncle had an I/O in a new boat. It was always broken. He was probably doing something wrong, but I really never had to do maintenance on one. Just rode around in them. But I know there is more to it than just changing the oil and filter. 8)

The engine is basically a car engine with better cams and a host of marine flame prevention devices (e.g. flame arrestor). I would agree that outboards are generally easier to maintain. As I mentioned earlier, it's all about quiet on the water for me and the admiral. A smoking and noisy two stroke would ruin that peacefullness. I also mentioned that I've yet to be on a boat with a big four stroke so I don't know how quiet they are. I don't think the price of the four stroke has come down that much so an I/O application is more than competitve in price; and, it is quiet on the water.

DJ · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

I'm an outboard guy, through and through but I have owned I/O's with no issues. I only owned/own MerCruiser.

You'll be hard pressed to find cuddys with outboard power. There are some out there but they are a little rare.

The only real issues I've had with some I/O's are:

1. The engine compartment. Some are so tight it's difficult to work on them. That can be remedied, in most cases, with your interior redesign.

2. Weight. They are 1/2 to 2/3 heavier than most outboards. You have to consider that if you tow allot and when considering HP/performance.

In the size boat you are considering, a V-6 (I/O) is a minimum. I also agree that A 100 hp outboard is going to be working real hard. I think 140 is more in line.

I/O's are really quite simple. If you follow the basic maintenance and checks, they'll provide thousands of hours of quiet enjoyment.

DJ · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Let me add this. If you buy an older I/O be prepared to spend some money on it to get it safe/reliable.

1. Replace the manifolds and risers.

2. Replace every hose.

3. Tune.

4. Replace the impeller (if it has one) and service the lower unit. Just like an outboard.

5. Have the drive removed and service the Gimbal bearing and have the drive aligned.

6. Replace the bellows.

Once that is all done and you have a healthy engine-enjoy.

I think the cost factor is about on par with an outboard as far as maintenance goes. Maybe a liitle less because the initial acquisition price of an I/O powered boat is going to be lower than a boat with a newer four stroke outboard.

Stay away from any boat with an OMC I/O. Not that they were bad but parts/service are getting harder to find as time goes on.

Volvo and MerCruiser are OK.

4Winns2 · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

Re: Project Boat Power Option Diemma

DWJ said:
Let me add this. If you buy an older I/O be prepared to spend some money on it to get it safe/reliable.

1. Replace the manifolds and risers.

2. Replace every hose.

3. Tune.

4. Replace the impeller (if it has one) and service the lower unit. Just like an outboard.

5. Have the drive removed and service the Gimbal bearing and have the drive aligned.

6. Replace the bellows.

Once that is all done and you have a healthy engine-enjoy.

I think the cost factor is about on par with an outboard as far as maintenance goes. Maybe a liitle less because the initial acquisition price of an I/O powered boat is going to be lower than a boat with a newer four stroke outboard.

Stay away from any boat with an OMC I/O. Not that they were bad but parts/service are getting harder to find as time goes on.

Volvo and MerCruiser are OK.

If you find one with an OMC on it. I would use it as a barganing chip in price based on what was said above. My OMC outdrive has been great so far. In my search to find out how much replacement parts would be in the event something goes wrong hasn't proved to be that much more expensive then say a MercCruiser or Volvo Penta. There are more OMC parts available out there then most think. Somebody always wants the aftermarket action when a product goes out of business. If you're looking at an older boat anyways, you have to entertain the possiblity of a re-power on the engine and the outdrive. With that in mind, I put a re-manned 4.3 litre long block in mine two years ago. I'm also in the process of pricing up MerCruiser and Volvo outdrives with conversion kits when the time (when something really goes) comes. Since the hull is in great shape, I'll be keeping it until they burying me at sea. I have to, I'm way upside down on the value of the boat as it is with the new engine.

DJ · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Dilemma

Stay away from any boat with an OMC I/O. Not that they were bad but parts/service are getting harder to find as time goes on.

Harder-not impossible. The "service" aspect is getting more difficult than parts.

One more thing to consider. Entire "drop in" drive packages (complete engine, mid section and outdrive) are priced very competitively with larger four stroke outboards.

Swapping a new 4-cyl/V-6/V-8 MerCruiser from an old MerCruiser, of like engine size, is quite easy.

4Winns2 · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Dilemma

DWJ said:
Stay away from any boat with an OMC I/O. Not that they were bad but parts/service are getting harder to find as time goes on.

Click to expand...

Harder-not impossible. The "service" aspect is getting more difficult than parts.

One more thing to consider. Entire "drop in" drive packages (complete engine, mid section and outdrive) are priced very competitively with larger four stroke outboards.

Swapping a new 4-cyl/V-6/V-8 MerCruiser from an old MerCruiser, of like engine size, is quite easy.

As time goes on, you're right, it will be harder to find technicians to work on an OMC. Here in Syracuse, we have a long-time Four Winns dealer who has sold a lot of boats with OMC over the years so their techs are working on them frequently any ways. In principle, outdrives are outdrives for the most part and most dealers will dive into the service for you for money regardless of the make.

Personally, I just need a few more years out of mine and then I will get me one of those shiny new outdrives. She should look pretty compared to the half paint job that is mine now. I've been reluctant to strip and re-paint in the first couple of years since the outdrive may have had some hidden and major problem. Doesn't seem to be the case so this spring it'll be time to paint.

alden135 · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Dilemma

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CodyGrizz · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Dilemma

I have owned both and thankfully never repowered my outboard, but have priced them and WOW!! Thats the only reason I have not bought a boat with an outboard lately as it seems I can get a new i/0 setup for say..7k where the same power in an outboard is about 10+k. I mean YOWSER!! I like the outboard as you have more boat space generally speaking and dont mind sound, but still! i/o arent bad to maintain while yes outboards ARE easier to ge to and such.

Dunno..tough call I say. I know I am building a boat next summer and am going V-drive or i/o just to save money..

DJ · Dec 29, 2006

Re: Project Boat Power Option Dilemma

As time goes on, you're right, it will be harder to find technicians to work on an OMC. Here in Syracuse, we have a long-time Four Winns dealer who has sold a lot of boats with OMC over the years so their techs are working on them frequently any ways. In principle, outdrives are outdrives for the most part and most dealers will dive into the service for you for money regardless of the make.

You are fortunate. It sounds like you have a great dealer, That is a definite plus. Hold onto that connection.

I always frequent businesses that treat me right.

Project Boat Power Option Dilemma

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