1972 65 evinrude triumph electric shift lower unit problem

allenandcassie · #1 February 26th, 2007, 06:24 PM

everytime i tighten the prop down and go out to the lake the prop shaft loosens and then it will only go at a low speed. if i gun it the motor doesnt even rev like it should in foward...but when you put it in neutral it revs all the way. can anyone possibly know whats going on with this? im not a mechanic or mechanically inclined and im trying to learn and not spend too much on the work. thanks.

Joe Reeves · #2 February 26th, 2007, 06:53 PM

Reving in neutral is a NO NO! The engine is in what could be called a free wheeling mode with nothing to keep it in check. It's very possible to encounter a runaway engine, which by the time you figured out how to stop it (seconds even), there would be connecting rods flying out the side of the engine. Example.... a 4 cylinder engine, running on 2 cylinders will rev up very high in neutral.

The propshaft comes loose? You'll need to explain that in detail as I don't see how that's possible.

Check the compression. What is it on all numbered cylinders?

With the spark plugs removed, the spark should jump a 1/4" gap on that model with a strong blue lightning like flame. Does it?

If the compression and spark are as they should be, and the engine does not turn up the proper rpms in forward gear, in all probability the carburetors are fouled and will require cleaning and rebuilding with complete carburetor kits.

Saskatoon2005 · #3 February 26th, 2007, 07:54 PM

I can't seem to see where you are going wrong....here is a pic of your electric shift...

F_R · #4 February 26th, 2007, 08:31 PM

I really don't understand the question either, but a couple of things come to mind

1 The picture posted by Saskatoon is not the correct picture for the motor in discussion.

2 Here is the correct one. If the thrust washer circled in the picture is left out, the propeller will jam up against the gearcase, causing severe drag and even worse, severe damage.

Saskatoon2005 · #5 February 26th, 2007, 08:38 PM

Mine must have been from a different year then...sorry....I have a terrible maunual, but it's gets me by. Good thing I don't have a 1972 65HP outboard.....LOL!

Once again, sorry about this...

jimmbo · #6 February 26th, 2007, 09:23 PM

In 1979 I replaced a prop on a guys 1975 115hp I didn't know about the thrust washer. Boat ran fine but when the engine was tlited up we noticed the gear housing was missing pieces where the pro had jammed itself forward into the housing. We took the prop off and located the washer from the old prop, removed all the shattered peices of gearcase. When the prop was reinstalled, with the thrust washer , there was a 1/4" gap between the end of the case and the front of the prop hub. Boat still seemed to takeoff and run OK.

tashasdaddy · #7 February 26th, 2007, 09:38 PM

i was going to say thurst washer, till i saw Sas. picture, no nut, just shear pin. FR glad you caught that.

are you putting the cotter pin thru the nut, if so there's no way it can loosen. if you are i'm betting spun prop, or sheared splines on the prop shaft or prop.

allenandcassie · #8 February 26th, 2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

Reving in neutral is a NO NO! The engine is in what could be called a free wheeling mode with nothing to keep it in check. It's very possible to encounter a runaway engine, which by the time you figured out how to stop it (seconds even), there would be connecting rods flying out the side of the engine. Example.... a 4 cylinder engine, running on 2 cylinders will rev up very high in neutral.

The propshaft comes loose? You'll need to explain that in detail as I don't see how that's possible.

Check the compression. What is it on all numbered cylinders?

With the spark plugs removed, the spark should jump a 1/4" gap on that model with a strong blue lightning like flame. Does it?

If the compression and spark are as they should be, and the engine does not turn up the proper rpms in forward gear, in all probability the carburetors are fouled and will require cleaning and rebuilding with complete carburetor kits.

ok i rebuilt the carbs about 6 months ago. the deal with the prop shaft is when i tighten the prop down and install the cotter pin and get out on the lake after maybe 5 minutes the nut is still in the same place with the cotter pin but the nut will move freely by hand where before it was tight and unmovable by hand. the thing about reving the motor if you gave it full throttle in foward once it loosened it would sound like it was running at about 1/4 throttle. see i started having problems last summer the top carb adjustment needle vibrated out and like i said im not mechanically knowledgable so i didnt recognize it. so a mechanic saw it and i replaced the needle because threads were chewed up and i rebuilt all 3 carbs. then i went to the lake and this thing with the prop shaft started happening. im lost. compression test came in at 130 on all 3 cyl.

F_R · #9 February 27th, 2007, 01:30 AM

There is no need for the nut to be, or stay, "tight" tight. But I still wonder if that thrust washer is in there. If it is, fine and stop worrying about the nut. But if it isn't in there, you got big problems if you keep running it that way.

allenandcassie · #10 February 28th, 2007, 10:46 PM

i know i have a problem if i had no problem i would not be seeking advice

it makes no sense why would the book tell you to tighten the nut down with a socket if it is intended to come hand loose? i still believe it has something to do with the shaft. because i dont see how the nut can become hand loose when i installed a cotter pin. unless the prop shaft is somehow slipping. the first 5 minutes of running to motor at the lake it was fine and running at full throttle.im not sure what the problem is and no one seems to be able to give me any type of possible diagnosis....it may be me not explaining the issue properly or something. im no mechanic so i just know what i see. thanks for the help

F_R · #11 March 1st, 2007, 02:57 AM

Let's pause for reflection. Of course you are having a problem and that is why you are asking. I am only considering the possibility that you are looking at the wrong thing as the cause of the problem. Either that, or you are discounting our advice. You still have not told us whether that thrust washer is in there or not.

The propeller is sandwiched in between the nut and the thrust washer. The whole "sandwich" is bottomed out on the tapered shoulder on the prop shaft, which is a solid piece of stainless steel. There is no way in heck for that stainless steel to slip or stretch or go anywhere so as to get longer and make more space for the "sandwich". Even if the nut were left loose as a goose, the propeller would slide back and forth on the shaft, but would still drive the boat because it pushes against the thrust washer, which pushes against the shoulder on the shaft.

If you can look and see and assure us that the thrust washer is in there, then we can move on and try to come up with some other explanation for your lack of power.

casi77 · #12 March 1st, 2007, 03:32 AM

did you strip the nut!? how do the threads look on the nut & on the prop shaft?? are you sure you are using the correct nut?

Joe Reeves · #13 March 1st, 2007, 11:40 AM

As F_R states, it's possible that you are overlooking the obvious as per advice mentioned above in various areas.

Has the propeller been cutting into the lower unit casing?

Remove the propeller and look at the back of it. Is there a large thick stainless steel thrust washer covering the vaulcanized rubber portion of the propeller? If not, is that large thick stainless steel washer on the propshaft just in front of the propshaft seals?

That thrust washer will be approximately 2-1/2" in diameter

If that thrust washer is nowhere to be found, therein lies your problem.

In your reply, please answer the above questions so that we may concentrate on other possible causes of your problem if needed.

WillyBWright · #14 March 1st, 2007, 12:04 PM

There was a change in propshafts around then. Early ones had a squared-off shoulder on the shaft, later ones are tapered. You need the right thrust washer. A tapered thrust washer on a square-shoulder propshaft will allow the prop to rub on the gearcase. In order of installation... thrust washer, prop, spline washer, nut, cotter pin.

Saskatoon2005 · #15 March 1st, 2007, 03:20 PM

Hey F_R,

You must be rolling your eyes after trying to help "allenandcassie", requesting him to check for thrust washer on two occasions and then he gets mad at you for trying to help. He must not be reading the replies you have given him.

He should probably go the the forum where frustration gets the best of you and then you tear a strip off everyone who is trying. I have no idea where that forum would be but maybe he should start one.....LOL!

Not trying to offend anyone, just thinking it is funny, that people don't see what is sitting right in front of them! Take Care All,

Patrick

Joe Reeves · #16 March 1st, 2007, 09:50 PM

Willy.... You are correct pertaining to the two different thrust washers.

The squared off shaft/thurst washer type was last produced in 1971. The beveled shaft/thrust washer type came into being with the 1972 (the one being discussed here) model.

allenandcassie · #17 March 4th, 2007, 01:21 PM

ok look all the pieces are there in thte order from thrust washer,prop,splined washer,nut,cotter pin. hey saskatoon sasquach you know your jokes are really not funny at all guess that proves your from canada right?

but thanks for everyone elses help.

Joe Reeves · #18 March 4th, 2007, 03:43 PM

If the propshaft is the proper shaft, and all the proper parts are installed, I'm at a loss to understand how that problem can exist. I'll pass to a higher knowledge.

However, before I leave, I wonder if the propeller could possibly be a third party propeller whereas the large stainless steel thrust washer IS NOT against the metal portion of the prop but rather inside that area and being against the vaulcanized rubber portion of the prop assembly OR the wrong (too small diameter) thrust washer has been installed.

F_R · #19 March 4th, 2007, 04:24 PM

I'm at a loss concerning the loosening also. Can't answer them all.

allenandcassie · #20 March 5th, 2007, 03:26 PM

when i first ecountered the problem the thrust washer had some rubber melted to it when i removed the prop. i dont know if that has anything to do with your response or not. ive had people say it may have spun the hub in the prop and others say no. could that be a possibility? thanks

F_R · #21 March 5th, 2007, 04:06 PM

A spun hub will cause the motor to rev up but slip. Lotsa revs but slow going. Sorta like spinning your wheels on the ice - or mud if you are a southerner. Is that what is happening?

Joe Reeves · #22 March 5th, 2007, 06:23 PM

In agreement with F_R. Wish that vulcanized rubber melt down had been mentioned eariler but no matter.... it would just have cut the answer sooner is all, if the hub is actually slipping.

If that prop is actually slipping, either replace that prop or have it rehubbed. The slippage in the rubber.

Check the prop for slippage by blocking the prop with a piece of wood, then with the plug wires removed, apply a good amouint of pressure to the flywheel nut with a proper socket and a long breaker bar.

If you can turn the engine over, causing the propshaft to turn within the propeller... the hub is slipping.

Let us know what you find.