"Loran-C" navigation system/GPS. Still around?

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tmh

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Hey, got my "new" 1985 boat and it has an "Automatic Loran-C Receiver" unit. I haven't even turned it on but am told it does turn on - previous owner (short term) never tried it at all. There is a long "marine type" antenna for the unit which I'd get rid of if it is of no use. Looking at the manual, it seems it's a gps system of some sort. Also shows boat speed.

Is this Loran-C system still in operation? If so, is it like a modern GPS system? I'm sure the functionality can't be like modern ones due to the advancements in chip technology, but I'm wondering if it's any good at all.

Thanks.
 
JB

JB

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I think the LORAN-C system is still in operation, but it is pretty primitive compared to GPS and a lot harder to use unless you have some basic navigation training and a place to spread out charts.

Donate it to a marine museum and get a GPS Chartplotter.
 
Boatin Bob

Boatin Bob

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No idea what kind you have but most had an 8' ft fibreglass antenna, so I'm puzzled why you want to get rid of that, it won't work anymore. I have a Raytheon unit a little over 10 yrs old(bought new), has a plotter, fish finder, shows water temp and calculates speed either with the paddle wheel or speed over ground through the LORAN-C. It's still extremely useful and I really like it. The LORAN-C network will still be out there for several years.
 
T

tmh

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My wife says the big antennas make the boat lok "old" and I do agree a bit. You don't see these on small lake/bay type family boats too often. My other big antenna is for ship-to-shore radio which I guess is also useful but I assume replaceable as I have a cell phone or other means of communication I'd expect it available today. I'd for sure keep the S-T-S radio with big antenna if I was going out on big lakes far away from the masses, but I'm not - at least until someday when I get a much bigger boat.
 
S

swist

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The Coats Guard (and most of us boaters too) strongly recommends against relying on a cell phone instead of VHF radio on a boat. So you're always going to have a VHF antenna, although if you are not going far from anyone you want to talk to, like the CG, you can get 3 or 4 foot antennas (with somewhat lower performance).

Loran is obsolete (and GPS antennas are much smaller, possibly even built-in to the unit). In my opinion I don't understand why the taxpayers are still funding it.
 
Boatin Bob

Boatin Bob

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Your choice...just saying that LORAN-C is useful, does work and will be around for a while, VHF also very useful not just for ship to shore but ship to ship, cell phone coverage not always there, VHF gives instant access to CG for emergency, weather channel updates, also to be monitored for problems from other boaters (you may be able to lend a hand). For VHF you change the 8' ft fibreglass for approx 4' stainless whip.
 
H

hiflyer

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I had a loran c boat model in an old cessna 150. It worked great. It had moving map they still use them. And If I had one,I would not shut it down. I have seen both gps and loran go down so leave it. Vhf also beats cell. To many places, not just ocean, cells do not work.
 
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Prin

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tmh said:
Hey, got my "new" 1985 boat and it has an "Automatic Loran-C Receiver" unit. I haven't even turned it on but am told it does turn on - previous owner (short term) never tried it at all. There is a long "marine type" antenna for the unit which I'd get rid of if it is of no use. Looking at the manual, it seems it's a gps system of some sort. Also shows boat speed.

Is this Loran-C system still in operation? If so, is it like a modern GPS system? I'm sure the functionality can't be like modern ones due to the advancements in chip technology, but I'm wondering if it's any good at all.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
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Prin

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The LORAN system is an excellent system. It uses radio signals and trianglization to give location. It is not as accurate as GPS by any means but still is very good. You can probably count on being within 50 feet or less of your desired location with LORAN, GPS of course is much more accurate as it uses multiple satelittes. The LORAN was originally scheduled to end a year or so back, but was extended. I have heard that it may be gone by 2007. So, if you have it use it while you can. It has been used for years by many boats and airplanes.
Enjoy
 
tommays

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I raced for many years on Long Island sound between the NYC area and as far as marthas vineyard on a 34 ft sailboat plenty of fog,nightime, all kinds of shoals to run into ect

The loran-c system on that boat and in that area was as good as my brand new WASS GPS other than takeing more skill to use


Tommays
 
U

UpstNYer

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Still around and still useful. The one I had in my plane was accurate and nearly as easy to use as the GPS that's in there now. Only thing you had to know was when and where to change LORAN chains to keep accuracy in spec. As smart as that box was, I always wondered why it couldn't change chains on its own.

Still, when the LORAN quits, it's time to do some soul searching. The fixes are never cheap and neither are the database updates. The older technology they used was also more heat sensitive. I'd say use it if it works, but don't spend anything on it if it quits. GPS is the way everything is heading, for better or worse.

To me, LORAN always made more sense than GPS from a maintenance and national security standpoint. If a LORAN station quits, a guy gets in a jeep and goes to fix it. If a GPS satellite quits, you have to kiss it goodbye and start up a spare or launch another. Then there's the issue of enemies using the GPS system and cheap receivers to deliver munitions with pinpoint accuracy from far away. With LORAN, it was possible to disable the station chain that served a troublesome area.
 
Drowned Rat

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LORAN's accuracy is dependent on how sharply the radio signal intersect one another. If you're between two transmitters, the accuracy is very poor. 1/4 mile accuracy at best. But, if you're in a location where the signals cross at close to a 90* angle, like Long Island Sound, then they're very accurate. They're line of sight so practiacally useless inland, unless you're in the air. TD lines are hard to plot because they curve on a flat map to account for the curvature of the Earth. When GPS went mainstream in the early 90's, the GPS units were still very expensive and there were still lots of blackout periods. Commercial boatmen lobbied the government not to do away with LORAN since they all had that equipment already and it always worked. The government promised to keep LORAN up for 20 years. I believe that was 1993 or there abouts. You should still have LORAN signals for another 7 years give or take.
 
Boatist

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Many types of Loran C. My Furuno LC90 can us TD's but i alway run mine in Latitude and Longitude just like a GPS. Accuracy very good going back to the same waypoint, within 40 feet. Going to a position the first time can be off 1/4 mile. Units that have ASF (Additional Secondary Factors) good to about 1/8 mile for first time. I Still use mine for routes more than I use my GPS, Just because there all programed in. As I go I do program the routes to my GPS. Good to have several different systems to navigate with.

VHF or Cell Phone?
With your Cell phone close to shore you can call someone. If they answer have a boat may be able to help or call some one for help. If you call 911 likely get the hwyway patrol and they will want to know what hwy your on. Then connect you to coast guard. If you hit something and your sinking can you call the boat 300 yards away and ask for help to save you and your family.

VHF it you hit something and are sinking you call mayday on channel 16 give your position and every boat following the rules. Will here you and come to you aid. Coast Guard will also rsepond and send a boat with big pumps to help you save your boat and family.

If your 20 miles off shore cell phone will not work unless it is a satellite phone. It only use would be to throw it at another boat to try and get their attention.

In a boat on the coast VHF is the only way to go.
 
T

tmh

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OK, I see the value in the VHF radio...but can't I just get a new hand-held one and get rid of the 8ft. antenna for this old one? I realize the hand-held likely has a much shorter range, but my boat isn't for going across Lake Ontario - just small lakes (MY State Finger Lakes) or bays.

How well do the hand-held ones work?
 
Boatin Bob

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Everything in boating is a "Compromise" you want a hand held one for esthetics and portability, no problem but you do sacrifice power and range, your choice. For me today it's not a choice between cell phone or VHF because we use both and they are for different purposes. You don't have to have a VHF, but the folks here are just giving you their advise based on their experiences, same thing with the LORAN-C, if it works, no reason to scrap it, could be very useful, repeatability to return to the same location is very good (nice for your fav fishing holes)
 
T

tmh

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No, I'm not saying "no VHF" because I have a cell phone. I'm trying to find out how useful the hand-held VHF units are and what limitations they have. The thing is, i see almost no recreational boats like mine (19' open bow) with antennas like mine so the others must have an alternative, right?
 
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Paul Moir

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No, they're just running without a station VHF.

The critical factors for VHF range are in order of importance:

1. Antenna height above water
2. Power going into antenna from radio (normally 25w for non-portable units)
3. Length (and quality) of antenna

1 and 3 are related on a power boat, since a long antenna will be a higher antenna. If you look at sailboats, you'll see they get away with little 3' long ones but mounted way up high on the mast. Hand helds don't have any of those things going for them, so don't expect much range. About 2 miles typically with a handheld, but the Coast Guard may be able to hear you since they put their antennas up very high.
 
Boatist

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I do not know your area but out here in California most small lakes very few boat have VHF radios. For that mater most have no radio at all. VHF hand helds work good for short range if the battery is charged or you have it plug in to 12 volts. Also most small laakes have no Coast Guard or Partrol boats. Larger lakes, Ocean, or Big rivers then the VHF is a must.

Also VHF does have a lot of Rules to follow so should you decide to keep it Download the rules off the net and learn the rules and which channels you are allowed to use.
 
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