[kauboy]

I realize this topic has been run into the ground, but please bear with me. I am new but have done a ton of searches to find my answer and keep getting confused.

I have a 1969 Evinrude 55HP motor and a Selectric control switch. I just recently was at the lake and as I was finishing up the day and heading to the ramp, I noticed I couldn't switch into nuetral or reverse anymore. I had been able to do it all day long but now, nothing. So I started thinking it was electrical, so I pulled out the manual and did a quick light probe test on the three button switch. If I did it correctly it seems like it is bad. But I may not have fully understood the directions in the manual on how to do the test. The switch was very clean and had no signs of corrosion or water. And since it is terribly difficult to replace, I'm hoping that its not the problem.

So, I need to know what to check/do to correct this. I have heard that this could be a lower unit problem, but don't know too much about it. The boat is new to me and I haven't had to do any work to it yet, aside from cosmetic. I have heard that this could just be a lower unit oil problem, a solenoid problem, or an electrical problem, but I need to get this fixed before this Labor day weekend.

I greatly appreciate any help given.

[F_R]

First thing to do is check the oil in the lower unit. No water please. Better yet, if you haven't done it lately, change the oil. You must use OMC (BRP) Premium Blend oil. The oil doubles as the hydraulic fluid that does the shifting.

Best way to check the switch is to use a voltmeter to check the voltages on the blue and green wires back at the powerhead...the ones that go down into the lower unit. Bare the terminals, but leave them connected. Turn on the key (don't start the motor) push the neutral button, and check the voltage on the green wire. Should be same as battery voltage. Push the buttons several times to make sure the results are consistant. Then do the same thing, checking voltage at the blue wire. Should be near battery voltage each time the reverse button is pushed. ALSO, there should be battery voltage on the green wire each time. In other words, voltage on green in neutral, voltage on BOTH green and blue in reverse. No voltage on either in forward. If it flunks the tests, you can repeat at the switch, but more than likely it is shot. They gave a lot of trouble that way. BTW, the switch for your motor looks the same as earlier models with spring clutches, but is different internally and they are not interchangeable. They really aren't that hard to change. Take out the two screws that hold it and the two from the plastic interlock slider. It will come out with a bit of mild persuasion..

[kauboy]

Ok, I had my wife do the light probe test again using your info(don't have a voltmeter yet). She did it at the switch first though. Anyways, this is the break down of what she got.

Forward:
Blue Light went on (bummer)
Green Light stayed off

Neutral:
Blue On (bummer)
Green Off (bummer)

Reverse:
Blue Off (bummer)
Green Off (bummer)

So, to me, it looks like the switch is fried. Should I still test at the powerhead? It probably couldn't hurt to change the oil too. Could it still be some other problem if I have only tested the switch? Are the solenoids even an issue?

I will be checking this thread every few minutes, so if you have a question, I should be able to answer it quickly.

[WillyBWright]

Actually the switch tests good ... for a Selectric gearcase. On those, forward and reverse are engaged when those leads are energized. On your Hydroelectric shift, it's in Forward with no voltage applied, Neutral with the green energized, Reverse with both green and blue energized. In other words, you have the wrong switch. It's a Selectric switch, not a Hydroelectric switch.

Have a look at the main harness plug. There are yellow ones, black ones, and red ones. They have to match. You don't want a control with a yellow plug on a motor with a black one, or vice-versa. It's also real easy to put the wrong switch in the right control. They look almost identical and mount-up the same.

Here's why... On the earlier 40 twin and larger V-4 Selectric models, the motors could still run fine, but if power was lost to the electric shift, it'd be in Neutral all the time and leave you stranded even though the motor ran fine otherwise. So the next generation of electric shift gearcase would automatically default to Forward so that if the power to the shift system failed, you could still get home. I'm sure there were a few lawsuits that prompted the change. "Improvements" seem to evolve for such reasons.

[kauboy]

I don't quite understand your post. Are you saying that I don't have the right switch? Its the original. It has never been changed. The unit looks identical to this. Sorry its the only pics I could find. I don't have any yellow, black, or red wires anywhere near the switch. Only purple, green, and blue.

Am I confused? I don't understand how mine could be testing good when my green wire never has voltage, regardless of gear.

[WillyBWright]

The main harness plug is back under the motor hood. The control in your pic is for a Selectric motor. Your 55 is Hydroelectric. Am I safe in assuming that the Selectric control was already in the boat and you mouned the 55?

[kauboy]

Let me try to understand you. Are you saying that at some time during the previous owners possesion, someone changed the original control switch out with a Selectric, but that the original should be a Hydroelectric? The one on my boat looks IDENTICAL to the one in the pics I provided. You can find an exploded view of it here. The part that I think is bad is designated as #13 in the pic, but they don't sell it anymore.

I do know that the lower end is not the original. Could that be why the control switch was changed? If that wouldn't make a difference, could I put a Hydroelectric one back on it?

[kauboy]

Oh, you edited your post. Then I'll leave mine and address your change. I did not purchase these thing separately. I bought the boat as a whole, engine, control switch and all. It has been runnign for years apparently and worked just fine for me many times until three days ago. I had no reason to believe that the control switch and the engine didn't match up. If thats the case, what options do I have to resolve my problem?

[WillyBWright]

Put a Hydroelectric switch in your Selectric control, or look for a Hydroelectric control. They're on eBay most of the time.

The 68 and 69 55s were always Hydroelectric. Other electric shift models of those years (and earlier) were Selectrics. Selectrics were phased-out as of 1970, and Hydroelectrics disappeared in 1973 in favor of mechancal shift only. The 55 triples cannot fit a selectric gearcase. So don't feel you are alone in your confusion. It was a very confusing few years.

You can use an Evinrude control for a Johnson and vice-versa, as long as the main harness plugs are the same color. Evinrude used pushbuttons, the Johnson switches were incorporated into the throttle lever. So at least you have another option that way.

[kauboy]

So your saying that even though my lower end is not from a 55 Evinrude, that would not matter in the selection of a new control/switch? This is a good thing. That doesn't limit my options as much as I thought.

For quickness though, if it is my switch, can I replace it with a toggle switch for the short term? Sombody posted about another thread where a double-pole triple toggle switch was used. Do you know if this is possible or even a good idea?

[kauboy]

I may have found some switches. Will either of these work? The first claims to be NIB and the second looks identical to mine.
First one
Second one

[WillyBWright]

Can be done. But it's confusing because the middle position is Forward and the other positions are Neutral and Reverse, depending how you mount it or connect it.

[kauboy]

My main fear is that it won't just be the switch. I have enough electrical ingenuity to temporarily connect a toggle switch so I will be doing that. But I also want to eliminate all other possibilities. I will be changing my lower end oil tonight to ensure that is not the problem. Is there anything else that should be checked?

[F_R]

I gotta say this: That switch is no good, and I don't see the logic saying it's the wrong switch. There are only 3 kinds. Actually two, the third one has a start-in-neutral-only neutral feature. That would be the one with 5 terminals.

Other than the neutral start feature, the others are as so:
Old Spring Clutch Selectric Shift:
Neutral, no connections
Forward, power to green only
Reverse, power to blue only
So,, you see that's not your case.

HydroElectric shift (ALSO called Selectric):
Neutral, power to green
Forward, no connection
Reverse, power to both green and blue
This is the one you need. Your motor is a Hydro-Electric Selectric Shift. You can use the 3 terminal one, but you will be able to start it in gear if you do...not exactly a good safety feature. Hope this isn't too confusing.

Personally I would never buy a used one unless they guarantee it to be good. They were too troublesome with being intermittant.

Now, about testing the rest of the system. Disconnect the existing switch wires. Use a jumper wire from the battery + terminal to the green wire. Motor should go into neutral (has to be running). Now connect the jumper wire to BOTH green and blue. Motor should go into reverse. (running)

[kauboy]

OMG that totally cleared it up. Thank you!!! I knew I wasn't crazy. Excellent idea to use a jumper wire! So, should I even worry about the solenoids. I know this is the third time I have said it, but I am paranoid that it will be a disasterous labor day weekend if I can't get this working.

[F_R]

The solenoids would be the last thing on my mind.
You think you are anxious about Labor Day? You should see how it was when I was working on those things for a living. Every holiday weekend the same thing. A whole swarm of people who just HAD to have their boat ready. I wound up in the hospital with a gut full of ulcers and dang near died from an allergic reaction from the tratment. Cool it man, life is too short. I just came from the Doctor. He is sending me for a CT scan. He doesn't like my chest sounds.

[kauboy]

Yikes! Reality check time... "all is good, all is fine, breathe in breathe out"
Ok, I feel better now. Sounds like you used to have a great time with them Hope that CT scan comes back normal.

[kauboy]

Ok, a $20 multimeter saved me $70 for a new switch. The switch is not the problem!!! Its the green wire. I tested the resistence of the switch in each mode(Forward=no reading, Neutral=reading on green connector, Reverse=reading on blue and green connectors). I even tried that jumper wire from the batt to the wires, with the engine running, and had no luck. The blue was the only one that sparked, and since that alone won't do anything, it didn't change gears (obviously).

So, I followed the wire, testing it all along the way and went all the way back to the powerhead. I connected my light probe to the green wire and touched the other point to the battery and got nothing. That was the farthest I could get without going into the lower end.

So, now what do you think it could be? With my limited knowledge of outboards, I'm still leaning toward the solenoid. If so, are they normal solenoids that can be found anywhere? How much are they? Etc?

Is there anything else that it could be?

EDIT:
Well I was reading my Seloc manual and after disconnecting and performing the OHM test on the wires leading to the lower end, it says that its definately the solenoid. The green one to be more specific. There is absolutely no reading on the green wire leading to the solenoid. The blue one however reads 5.8 OHMs and is working just fine. So now I have to remove the unit and replace that solenoid. I will now re-ask my questions. Is it easy to find a replacement? What is the cost, roughly? Also, since I've never dissassembled the lower end, what items will I need to change the solenoid. I have the tools and a book to help, but what kinds of seals/gaskets/"goo" do I need? The ones in the book are OLD and I don't know what the modern equivalent would be.

This is not something that has to be done soon since The boat still works in forward. I don't know if there is a problem running it around in forward only though. The only problem I could see is if the solenoid that went out was caused by something that could effect the rest of the unit. That could be bad.

Sorry for the long post.

[F_R]

So, now you have me completely bamboozled. How do you account for the wierd test results you got way back earlier in this thread? Something is very screwy here.

Anyway, use your multimeter and test the resistance of the solenoid by connecting to the green wire where it comes up from the lower unit, and ground. Should be 5 to 6 ohms on low ohms scale (wire disconnected from everything else). If the green wire fails the 5-6 ohm test (open/no connection), the wire could be broken between there and the solenoid, or the solenoid is open (no good). If it has less than 5 ohms (i.e. near zero) the wire is shorted to ground somewhere. If you are absolutly certain that it passes the 5-6 ohm test, and applying 12v directly to the green wire where it comes up from the lower unit via a jumper (and the green wire disconnected from everything else upstream) does not cause it to go into neutral with the engine running, Then you have trouble in the lower unit. The 5-6 ohm test decides whether or not the solenoid is bad. The only other thing that can be wrong with the solenoid is out of adjustment, and they should not get out of adjustment by themselves. Beyond that, we are back to the oil question. And if all that is OK, the lower unit has to come apart...not a job for an amature.

Having said all that, you have not yet convinced me that you don't have an electrical problem, as evidenced by the screwy original test results. BTW, a resistance test is not the best way to test the switch, because that does not put a load on it. The best way is to test the voltage under load (wires connected). But be aware that you can be fooled if somewhere along the way there is a wiring fault.

Oh, to answer your question, the solenoids are a very special item, and although I haven't checked, I have to assume they are costly (what isn't)

[F_R]

Not meaning to confuse the issue more than it already is, I suppose I should mention that the shift switch is fed by a blocking diode from the ignition switch and a vacuum switch at the powerhead. But if those are bad you will fail the voltage tests (i.e. no voltage at the switch.) And besides, it will work even if the vacuum switch is bad....but that's another story. And none of this matters if you jump to the green wire at the lower unit/powerhead, which eliminates everything else.

[F_R]

Can't get this off my mind. You DO know that the voltage tests I am speaking of are done with the voltmeter's + lead to the wire terminal and the - lead to ground.....don't you?

[kauboy]

Yes, I do. Per the instructions in my manual, I disconnected the green and blue wires at the powerhead where they go down into the lower end. I tested both ends of the wire. To clarify, with the switch in the forward position, I tested the disconnected wire back at the power head and grounded off the other lead. I got no voltage(good) and tested the blue with the same results. I then switched the box to Neutral and tested again. Green showed 12 and blue showed 0. So, finally I switched to Reverse and tested both wires. Both had 12V. So, according to the manual, that eliminates the switch and all wiring leading to it as being the problem. I then turned my attention to the continuation of those wires that lead to the solenoids. I tested the OHMs of the blue wire/blue solenoid and grounded the other lead and got 5.8OHMs. That is within the 5-7 range that the manual specifies. I then tested the green one and grounded the other lead. And guess what? No reading could be displayed. I tested multiple times and confirmed a good ground, and still got nothing from the lower end green wire.

The reason my initial test was flawed was because the green wire's circuit was interupted (cuz the solenoid/wires leading to it was bad) and no current could be pulled through the switch. So no reading would show on the green spade connector in the switch. As you know, unless a circuit is grounded or complete, electricity will not pass through it. So that was my problem here. The switch is fine, the solenoid, or wire leading to it, is bad.

Next question. Were is the solenoid grounded out at? Is it simply touching the metal inside the lower end, or is there a wire coming from it? Obviously checking the wiring first is the best option instead of replacing the solenoid.
Could this still be caused by bad oil? Since water could cause a short, could I still be looking at a problem other than the solenoid itself? I will be draining and changing the oil tonight to check for water(which I understand will show up white).

[F_R]

The solenoids are grounded by virtue of sitting in the gearcase cavity. No separate ground wire. No ohms certainly means either a broken wire or open solenoid winding. Obvioulsy it can't work if if either is the case. And obviously, even with good clean oil it still won't work if the solenoid doesn't actuate to close the valve in the oil pump.

[kauboy]

Ok, if I don't ever have to go backwards, is it okay to run the unit? I definately don't want to risk damaging anything else, but if the lower end removal is not for amatuers or those with little time, then I may not want try it before this weekend. I have a friend who is a certified mechanic that said he would be happy to help me, but admits he knows very little about outboards. He knows the basics of the motor, gears, and driveshafts, so his knowledge is helpful. How much work actually has to be done to reach the solenoids? can I just drain the unit and drop it, or do I have to move things to get to them? If I remember correctly, the water pump is sitting above them and may have to be removed first. Is that right?

BTW, I really appreciate this help. It's giving me more confidence in the understanding of how it all works. Thank you very much. I realize that you probably have much better things to do than waste your time helping an ignorant stranger, but I greatly appreciate the effort.

[F_R]

The comment about not for amatuers was meant to apply to gearcase overhaul where the whole thing has to come apart. You can replace solenoids without a special degree in brain surgery. They are under the cover just forward of the water pump, the WP does not have to come apart, but while you are right there it would make sense to slap in a new impeller. Your manual should explain how to get the lower unit off and back on. Don't miss the plastic water tube guides which will most likely have worked their way up the tubes. They are used to facilitate hitting the holes when reassembling the gearcase to the upper housing.

Running it with a bad solenoid won't hurt anything other than no-shift as long as you don't run over somebody or the pier. But make sure that oil is OK.