Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Link

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OK I will try to be brief but give enough information so you can maybe help.<br />The house is 720 square feet on a Cement Slab built or thrown up during WWII for Air Force Officers housing. <br /><br />It has the original tiles on the floor. Back then they didn’t have peel and stick but spread glue and put down the 9-inch tiles down. <br /><br />Over the years and with many earthquakes I think the cement slab has cracked in a few places. <br />The bedrooms have no heat so this is the only place where we can see a problem. <br /><br />Bedrooms are empty as we have been using the hide a bed couch in the front room while doing sheet rock etc.<br /><br />Everything was going fine until I decided to lay a mattress on the floor in one bedroom because the couch thing was killing my back. <br /><br />After the first week when changing linen we found the bottom of the mattress soaked with and standing water on the floor under it. Just in one spot about a 2 -foot square. And the tiles just lifted off.<br /><br />Tried using the other bedroom with the same results. <br /><br />My question is: Am I on the right track here? <br /><br />If I’m correct I have a solution but want to make sure I’m reading this right in the first place. <br />Thanks<br /><br />Link
 

boatneck

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

link, one possibility is that the moisture seeping through the concrete slab is condensing on the mattress and that's causing the wet spot. You can confirm this possiblity by taping a sheet of plastic over the floor and see if you get condensation on the plastic. If it's moisture through the concrete slab you have to get vapor barrier in place, and I don't how to do that without removing all the tiles.
 

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Hi Link, boatneck is on course. It is a condensation problem that is probably happening. Lowes or Home Depot have in their laminate flooring section a system that creates a small dead air space between the slab and the floor. They use this product in basements to install laminate or carpet. To use this system you will need to put down a new floor. Looked easy to do.<br /><br />Any slab that is below grade will condense moisture through to the inside if it doesn't have a vapor barrier under it.
 

crab bait

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

try wearin' a diaper before beddy-bye.. :) ..
 

ae708

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

I would remove the tiles, put down a vapor barrier, put down some sleepers and lay a T$G 3/4" plywood subfloor. Then cover that with whatever flooring I wanted to use. Lots of work but will definitely cure the problem....... if you're planning on keeping the house.
 

qaztwo

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

check your down spouts to. I see alot of old homes with them ending at the foot of the foundation. I've also seen a paint for cement blocks that claims to be a vapor barrier along with a slight r value.
 

Barlow

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

LMAO @ CRABBY!! .. my thoughts exactly :D <br /><br />Link .. are you in the middle of a complete remodel?
 

Mr.Ladyfish

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

LMAO at Crabby. You just ain't right. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 

lakelivin

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

First you need to determine if the problem is condensation (due to diff between concrete and room temps) or whether water is leaching up through the concrete from below (or if there are cracks in slab allowing water through). <br /><br />Like boatneck said, you can check this by taping a piece of plastic (doesn't have to be huge, maybe a foot or 2 square?) to the bare concrete. Completely tape around all edges of the plastic. I believe if you get moisture on the outside of the plastic it's an indication of condensation. If you get moisture under the plastic it's an indiction of water leaching through the concrete from below. (Check this with a Google search on 'dry basement' or 'waterproof basement' or something like that 'cause I'm working from memory and you want to be sure you do this test correctly). <br /><br />How you deal with the problem is gonna depend on which it is. If it's condensation, some insulation and a vapor barrier should work.<br /><br />If it's water leaching through from below you've probably got bigger problems. Like qwaztwo suggested, take a look at your foundation and how water might be getting under the slab. Downspouts that drain back towards the slab would be easy to correct. If it's a problem with a slope that takes rainwater under the slab you may have a bigger issue (grading or french drain, etc.).<br /><br />If it's a problem with leaching, in addition to dealing with keeping water from getting under the slab in the first place, you may want to consider a moisture barrier. Instead of something like Drylock, which is a surface barrier you paint on, take a look at a product from Xypex. Instead of a surface barrier, it works by actully penetrating INTO the concrete, crystalizing, and sealing it below the surface. It's an industrial product thats used for things like tunnels, dams, etc. They've only been marketing it to the general public for a little while. See link for more info.<br /><br /> http://www.xypex.com.au/products/index.htm <br /><br />Good luck!<br /><br />DISCLAIMER: note that I'm not a professional or anything, all of the above is based on stuff I've read. I have used Xypex on my basement and would HIGHLY recommend it as compared to a surface barrier like drylock. Of course, it's not a complete panacea; if you've got a mass of water exerting hundreds (or thousands?) of pounds of hydrostatic pressure on a concrete wall, chances are the water is gonna find (or create) a way through somewhere.
 

18rabbit

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Just a quick heads-up, the moisture coming thru the concrete is the ideal condition for wicking moisture into the walls and growing mold…the stuff that causes homes to be condemned. This is exactly how it starts, moisture thru the foundation and into the wooden framing in the walls.
 

jsfinn

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

I had a problem with a wet basement about 3 weeks ago. About 1/3 of the basement carpet was sopping wet. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. It had rained very hard earlier in the day but there was no water near the back door and the sump pump checked out ok and the concrete around the sump well was dry.The next day I went over to talk to the neighbors (it's a townhouse) to see if their basement was wet. Theirs was worse than mine .... their washing machine had broke - soaked their basement and it ran into mine.<br /><br />Ugh.. what a mess.
 

Indymike

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

If you are going remove those tiles be aware that it is very likely the adhesive holding them down contains asbestos.<br />and possibly the tile itself.
 

Link

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Hi guys<br />Thanks for all the input.<br />Decided the diapers were easy and cheap ! :D <br /><br />Have read this several times and been surfing the web as suggested.<br />Yes this is a complete remodel and I own the place out right so I can do with it what I want. OK to a point, as Mrs.Link wouldn’t let me bull doze and start from scratch! That was my first plan. :( <br /><br />After all the great questions it got me to thinking. Just put in a new gutter system this summer which runs away from the house. And this area has very little soil anyway. Its all rocks and drains very well so this very well may just be condensation after all.<br /><br />Right now both bedrooms are bare studs with new insulation and windows all around.<br />Once I get the inspector’s out of here this month for the new windows. I can do my own thing and be creative. <br /><br />We taped a 3’ X 9’ piece of clear plastic down earlier this evening and will check it over the next few days.<br /><br />In either case one of the XYPEX sealers or similar product looks like a good way to go. Tiles are going away. Had a contractor friend come in over the weekend and check them and the glue out. He has replaced the floors in a couple of these places. <br /><br />ae708<br />“I would remove the tiles, put down a vapor barrier, put down some sleepers and lay a T$G 3/4" plywood subfloor. Then cover that with whatever flooring I wanted to use.”<br /><br />That’s what he said he had done. He used a different term for sleepers. <br /><br />In our case though he said after the inspector’s left to lay in 2X6s then run all the electric wires, water and gas lines under everything. This would allow for heat and cold air return vents to be put in also. I was going to do all this over head and drop the ceiling down.<br /><br />So things are looking up a bit and I’ll update this as I figure it out.<br /><br />Thanks again
 

Barlow

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

good advice from the friend Link.. another thing you'll WANT to consider is a "Thermal Break" around the exterior of the frostwall/foundation. <br /><br />14ea. of 1"x4'x8' rigid foundation insulation should be what you need according to the sqft.
 

lakelivin

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Link,<br /><br />I'm not positive, but believe if it's just condensation Xypex alone isn't going to help. Isn't condensation formed on the surface of the concrete due to temp differences between the cold concrete and the warm room? If so, you'd still have condensation on top (the Xypex isn't going to change the temp of the concrete unless there is moisture wicking up from below.)<br /><br />My guess is if it's just condensation, some waterproof (rigid) insulation covered by a moisture barrier (sheet kind, not chemical) is the way to go. If it's water leaching through the concrete, getting rid of the water under the slab and Xypex type barrier should do it.
 

Link

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Originally posted by Barlow:<br /> good advice from the friend Link.. another thing you'll WANT to consider is a "Thermal Break" around the exterior of the frostwall/foundation. <br /><br />14ea. of 1"x4'x8' rigid foundation insulation should be what you need according to the sqft.
Thanks<br />Just spent a couple hours reading up on this after I read your post. Will put that on this spring.<br /><br />LakeLivin<br />
My guess is if it's just condensation, some waterproof (rigid) insulation covered by a moisture barrier (sheet kind, not chemical) is the way to go.
Exactly! I thought I had said that but just re-read my reply and I left that out.<br /> <br />I think you and others are correct about this. So far thats what the test is starting to show.<br /><br />Just to be on the safe side I will seal it anyway because I can. (will make me feel better when we sell the place)<br /><br />Selling a house, boat or a pair of shoes (when we had a retail store) it doesn't matter. You always want to provide your costumer with the best you had to offer for the money!<br /> <br />In thise case it will sell as a starter home in the same range...
 

lakelivin

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Link,<br /><br />Just one more thought. If you're sure that no moisture is wicking up through the slab but is coming from the top (through condensation or leaking water of some kind), might you be potentially doing more harm than good in using a chemical sealer on the slab itself? <br /><br />If it's condensation, insulating and putting a moisture barrier down should take care of the problem. But if it doesn't completely (or if say, a pipe leaked or somehow a large amount of water got spilled and worked it's way under the sheet barrier and insulation), wouldn't the chemical barrier on the slab keep the water trapped between the slab and the moisture barrier above instead of allowing it to seep through the slab? <br /><br />Again, no expert, just thinking out loud.
 

18rabbit

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

Don’t know the scope of your dilemma is but it might be worth keeping the mold warning in mind. Just heard on the news the folks in Indiana that recently got flooded are being advised to discard all furnishing and remove interior walls to prevent the spread of mold. They didn’t say it but I know from talking to a forensic construction consultant they also need to remove the sheetrock from the inside of the exterior walls as well, and let it all thoroughly dry out before reassembling. Btw, depending out what kind of mold grows, it can do anything from make people sick to kill (rare) them.
 

jamesgreen

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

http://www.schluter.com/ This is what I used in my bathroom downstairs. It is mainly for tile don't know if that is an option but it creates a water/vapor barrier. Works really well and is cheeper then 3/4 plywood and it allows air flow under the floor.<br /><br />James
 

MrBill

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Re: Floor is Leaking from the ground up!

STOP...go get this most recent publication of "FIne Home Building" - a great article on how to prep and finish concrete floored rooms, like basements, etc.<br /><br />SSMayfloat brings up a great option also, vapor barriers over concrete is now being re-thought because of the alternative problems created.
 
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