85 hp Suzuki issues

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
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17
I just acquired a 85 hp Suzuki and am having a few problem with it. First of all, I'm not sure on the year. It has "820131" on the Id plate. Can someone translate that for me? It has not been run in roughly two years. When I got it home I was like a kid and decided to clean it up and see if it would crank. I figure the regular problems would exist, bad gas, bad plugs, bad water pump,etc. Well it cranked and ran good. This is where I begin to have questions. There was no water coming out of the "pee hole" under the cowling or from the upper exshaust port. I only ran it for roughly a minute since no H2O was coming out. But I have twin mercs on my big boat and they don't pee for roughly two minutes after cranking, theromostat opening. But I has a small johnson another boat and it pees right away. What should the Suzuki do, this is the first on I have ever owned. Second, it has an alarm in the controls that sounds steady when I turn the key on. I figured this would end when it started but unfortunitly it continued. Where should I begin with that one and am I right in assuming that is the over heat/ low oil alarm? Any help you can provide will be appricate. <br /><br />RB
 

M.Magis

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May 22, 2003
Messages
28
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

The water should come out almost immediately, at least it does on my '88 30 hp. The alarm shuts off when the water reaches the water flow sensor. If the alarm isn't shutting off, it sounds as if the impeller needs replacing. Not a big job, but I'd recommend getting a manual to walk you through it.<br /> While your working on it, you might as well go ahead and rebuild/clean the carbs. There's a good chance they'll need it.
 

mscheopner

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Apr 17, 2004
Messages
20
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Has this motor been run in the salt? If so you might want to pull the thermostat and look inside for corrosion. Might as well replace the thermostat. My motor was almost totaly plugged with corrosion. If your motor is full of corrosion it's not a huge job to pull the head and clean the water channels. If you pull the hesd use an air gun on the bolts and you'll have less of a chance of breaking the bolts. Replacing the impeller isn't a hard job and you should start there. I also recommend getting a manual for these projects. Good luck
 

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
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Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

I figured I would have to change the impeller. I've done merc, yam, johnson, so now I get to extend my knowledge to Suzuki. I will get a manual. Anyone inparticular you recommend? Do you know the year from the serial number provided. I know there's a way to decipher but I don't know what it is. I need that info to order parts and the manual. I will look @ the manual regarding the thermostat and impellar replacement. It has been run in salt but the previos owner was an everyday rincer so I may leave that alone for now. Sounds to me like just the impellar may put me on the water this weekend. But I will go ahead and replace the plugs and gas. Last time I got to anxious to play with my newest toy, I nearly had to walk home and thats kind of hard in the middle of the bay.<br /><br />RB
 

mscheopner

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Apr 17, 2004
Messages
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Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

I have a Seloc manual it could be better but it shows how to do the impeller change pretty good. I don't know how to tell the year but call a suzuki parts department and give the serial # and they can tell you. One more trick to try is to blow compressed air into the pee hole. Sometimes this works pretty good. If you can walk on water I want to meet you!
 

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
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Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

I pulled the hose to the pee hole and could blow through it with my mouth so it wasn't clogged. <br /><br />I didn't have to try and walk but I didn't changed the plugs or the gas on my 28 Johnson and it ran like a top for about two miles and then cut off. I beached it, worked on it and could run it back home if I kept the choke in. Interesting ti say the list. I changed the plugs and gas the next day!
 

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
17
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Okay, I got the water pump in yesterday and will replace it tomorrow, I hope. Only problem that I am having is how to disconnect the shift linkage. I got the instructions with the pump and it just don't make any since. If I follow there instruction I may be able to get it apart but getting it back together will be awful. How will i line the Shift rod back up. Any help ya'll can give would be great. Pictures even better!<br /><br />thanks
 

mrn714

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Messages
178
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Looking on the right side (from the stern) of the upper outer housing you will find a rubber plug. It will be just behind the fuel port on the front of the motor. Pull it out. Use a 10 mm to removed both nuts from the shift shaft. Push the shift shaft two the left. that will release the shaft from the shifter. If you are going to rebuild the carbs, this would be a good time to pull them off and do so. Having them off makes putting the shift shaft back on easy. See below carb cleaning info and installation. Once you have pushed the shift shaft to the left, remove the bolts to the lower end. Support the lower end with a block of wood so it will not fall. Remove all the bolts, including the one at the bottom. This will release the lower end to replce the water pump. Once removed, do not hold the shift shaft lever to support the unit as it will pop out and you will then need to rebuild the lower gear box. Try not to turn the gear shaft, but if you do, not to worry. <br /><br />Remove the water pump houseing, clean all parts, make note of the direction of spin for the impeller. Remove all remnants of the seal, install the new seal, using vasoline, install the impeller, twist the correct direction to insure the proper path for the impeller. Be sur the houseing is clean. Be sure to clean all water ports. Drain the lower case and refill with new gear box fluid (about 1.5 leters). While you have the lower unit off, blow out all ports for the H20 system. Put some grease on the gear shaft. slid the unit back into position. use a floor jack to push into place, but it does not take much pressure, by hand with two people shoud do. If it does not quite make it, turn gear shaft to align the splines. Just before you snug it up, take a small amount of sealant to the connection between the lower and upper housing, not too much though. Connect the lower unit useing the bottom bolt, then tighten all others in place. Replace the thermostat at the top of the engine. Used water proof sealant to reattach. If the boltz turn off, no worry, tap them and install, it only has about 10 lbs of pressure at max rpm.
 

mrn714

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 15, 2003
Messages
178
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

ON carbs:<br /><br />Remove the oil injection tank, detach oil feed line and oil sensor wires. <br /><br />Remove the air intake bolts, bend back the metal stays, and remove the intake plate. Clean the plate with ether (I use starting fluid, but DO NOT USE THIS TO TRY TO START THE ENGINE AS IT WILL DAMAGE THE CYLINDERS) blow out lower excess fuel drain hose, if broken, replace it. While your at it, replace the fuel line from the intake nozzle to the fuel filter at the rear right of the lower engine housing. Alos open the clear fuel filter holder, clean all parts with ether, blow dry with high pressure air. <br /><br />Pull carbs by removing the nuts behind the carbs. Be sure to catch the gaskets that go between the carbs and intake. Pop of fuel lines, replace if worn, pop off linkage from the carbs, and drop the auto choke down. Clean the ram on the choke with ether. When you have the carbs off, start with the top carb, twist it so you can access the jet screws and bowl screws. Pull them out, clean with ether, blow out with air. Clean the bowls with ether, push the float pin out, clean off the flots, shake to see if they are damaged (if they have gas in them, find the hole, drane them, repair the hole, or replace the float) After you take off the floats, remove the center jet, watch the fuel pin as it will get lost, make note of the direction of all parts. Pull that jet out and it will look nasty, clean it, clean the carb body, inside and out with ether, blow all parts dry with compressed air (nice to have a air compressor) to insure all jets are clean. Reinstall all parts, (the gasket should be ok to use again) and repeat the steps for the other two carbs. <br /><br />Be sure to check all chokes to insure they move without excess pressure. It they do, clean then out, blow then dry. <br /><br />Be sure to check the intake for debris and **** that get that far into the system (I once found a hornets nest in one) clean with ether, blow out, let dry for a few. <br /><br />This is a good time to check all the lines to the oill injection system. Be sure no cracks or leaks, ether will do a nice job cleaning them off. <br /><br />While the carbs are off, you will be able to see the shift shaft below the intake. The shaft has a hole in the top that the shaft rod slids through. Reattached this prior to installing the carbs. Clen out the area below the carbs (usually filled with leaves and **** like that) and clean out the lower engine case drains. <br /><br />Use a very thin (like paper) of clean grease to hold the carb gaskets in place while you put the carbs back on. For the hard to reach nuts, try using a small amount of grese on the nut, then put it in place with a finger, the grease will hold it suspended for a short time to get it started. Sung the nuts up to the intake. Starting with the top, alternate tightning all till nice and snug. Reattached intake plate, intake cover, and oil tank. <br /><br />Prior to starting, it would be a good time to run a compression check on the cylinders. Pull the plug wires, pull the plugs, replace if worn, gap and clean all and set them aside. Using a screw in type guage, (make sure all tools are off the fywheel) turn the engine over for 2 secs. You should get 140 - 155 lbs, with no more than a 5 - 7 lb difference per cylinder. If that is OK, squirt a small amount of clean fuel into each cylinder and install the plugs. <br /><br />Prior to cranking be sure the battory has 12-13 cold cranking amps. Check the fuel filter in the boat between the tank and the fuel bulb. If it is old, pull it off and replce it. If it looks ok, pull it off, drain it, clan the bowl, then reinstall. Pull off the main fuel hose to the fuel filter at the rear right of the mengine. Put it in a small can to catch the gas. Pump the fuel bulb so you get a full stream of good fuel into the can. Reattached the fuel line, then pump the bulb full till it is hard. Make sure the choke is working. <br /><br />Attached a water feed clamp to the lower housing and turn on the water to fill the system. Using a small spray bottle, give the carbs a pre-spray at the back side intake holes above the choke. Start it up. <br /><br />Do not be alarmed if the thing starts up and scares the crap out of you. That motor is one that will just jump up and start running.
 

rbowen

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Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
17
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Okay guys. After much work and a few choice words I completed this water pump replacement. Reconnecting the shift linkage was truely a bear but I did get it completed after removing the lower unit a second time because some how the linkage to the lower unit shifted out of the highest position and I could not get the holes lined up. Now that it's all back together with a fresh supply of lower unit oil, I started it but, oh crap, I still get no water coming out of the pee hole. And the alarm is still sounding @ the console. So I pull the thermostat and the top end is dry. I fill this area with water and it successfully pee's so leave the thermostat out and crank again. Still not water at the top end. I leave the thermostat cover off and still no water at the top end. I blow through the access to where the water would come to the top and no cloggs. I'm stumped and really don't want to pull the lower foot again if I can avoid it. I have water coming out the exhaust coming through prop but none from the upper exhaust or pee hole. I have a feeling pulling the lower until is inevitable but I was hoping someone could provide a little input before I do so. Of maybe some magic would help too. Where is the water going because I can tell it's pumping because the amount of water coming out of the ears is different once it's running. I did seet the water pump correctly in the housing and made sure the key was aligned. And how can I ensure that the water line connecting the lower unit to the top end is line up correctly. Also, what would cause the alarm to sound constantly. It's really annoying. Is there a reset for this or any in depth knowledge you can provide on this system would be great.<br /><br />Thanks alot.
 

jim dozier

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Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,970
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Now that you have pulled the lower unit you shouldn't worry about doing it again. This time don't remove the nut on the shift shaft (the one behind the rubber plug). Just loosen it all the way and then push the nut in. This will disconnect the shift shaft and it makes it easier to reinstall.<br /><br />Pull the lower unit and clamp a garden hose on the end of the water tube (where it connects to the water pump). Now you can evaluate the flow through the engine separate from the pump. Remove the thermostat and replace the cover. With the garden hose on you should get flow out of the pee hole, out of the exhaust relief at the top rear of the middle unit, and out of the prop. If you don't you have a leak or blockage in the system somewhere above the water tube. <br /><br />If the cylinder head has never been removed and the engine was used in salt water the early OEM cylinder head gaskets didn't allow adequated drainage and tended to salt/corrode up blocking flow. Newer replacement head gaskets fixed this.<br /><br />Remove the thermostat cover and turn on the garden hose. You should get flow out of the thermostat cover. Try backflushing the system by stuffing the garden hose (with a rag for packing) into the thermostat housing and put a bucket underneath the water tube in the middle unit. See if anything flushes out of the block.<br /><br />If its flowing properly you did something wrong with the water pump installation.
 

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
17
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Okay Jim. I understand your trouble shooting and it makes sense to me. Only question I have is I didn't have a rubber plug with a bolt behind it. My motor is an 88. I lossened the bolt on the end of the shift linkage that goes to the rod to the lower unit. I think were talking about the same one but not completly sure. I just like getting things right the first time and not doing the same job three times. I've already done it twice since the shifting linkage slipped down during the process. I will use your procedures and see what happens. Can you help me on the alarm in the control box. It sounds when I first turn the key but won't go off when it running. It is constant. Any in depth knowledge on this on would be good. Reset, what the alarm indicates, etc.<br /><br />Thanks.
 

jim dozier

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1,970
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

I believe the shift disconnect nut is the same for all years. It is located on the starboard side of the engine bottom cover approximately in line with the back end of the carbs. Normally there is a rubber grommet that is removed to access the nut from outside the engine. I have a 1987 and the only alarm I have is the cylinder head temp sensor which has 2 wires coming out of the head. Later models (I don't know which year they started) also had a water flow sensor and also a oil flow sensor for clogged oil filter screen. I know the water flow sensors have caused some trouble (reported on these forums) but I have no personal experience with them. If you selectively disconnect the sensor wires on the engine you can narrow it down to which one is causing the horn. It may be the sensor or it may be a real problem that needs addressing. If the alarm goes off when you turn on the key I would suspect a bad sensor or a short in the wiring somewhere.
 

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
17
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Okay. I pulled it back apart again, then again, and then again. It still wouldn't pump water. It didn't make any sense. I think I have pulled it apart enought to cover the hands on time for a Suzuki cetified mechanic. I sprayed water through the top end, came out the bottom. Sprayed through the bottom, came out the top. Put muffs just on the lower unit. Water came out the water pump. It's killing me. I did some research on this forum and found a thread about a guy who have to get a brand new set of muffs and it worked as on an old set it wouldn't pump. I got the new set out of my big boat. And within 2 minutes, she's pissing and the alarm is gone. All alone it was an old set of muffs that leaked that caused the problem. I learned alot, to remember the little things!<br /><br />On to the next delimena. What does the thermostat do. I know in thereoy what it does, open to let water through when it gets hot. But where does it let water into? It pees and water to the head before the theromstat is open. I'm trying to determine if the themostat is working and what's it's purpose.<br /><br />Thanks.
 

jim dozier

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1,970
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Water on that engine enters the block from beneath and fills up the cylinder walls. The pee stream is just a hole in the side of the cylinder walls and lets you know water has gotten that far. Water then fills up the cylinder head and moves up to the top where it is stopped by the closed thermostat. When the thermostat opens at operating temp the water then flows out of the head and out the exhaust. Water will not show at the exhaust relief at the rear until the thermostat opens. In colder climates and cold water this keeps the engine temp within operating range.<br /><br />As you can see the pee stream on this engine does not indicate good flow through the system just flow into the system.
 

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
17
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Okay Jim. At what temp will this t-stat open or roughly how long of running. It's about 85 degrees outside aand I'm running it on a hosend also is there a downside of leaving the t-stat out. And is there any problem in using an auto t-stat in this motor since I have to get my suzuki parts mailed in. No local dealer. <br /><br />thanks for all your help.<br /><br />RB
 

jim dozier

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Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,970
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

Standard thermostat is set to open at 42 degrees C. (107.6 degrees F.). The temp number is stamped on the thermostat. You can tell when it opens when the water starts flowing out the exhaust relief at the back. Time depends on ambient air and water temp and engine speed.<br /><br />Generally it is best to leave it in to keep the engine warmed up when idling and other low demand times. In some engines it also helps keep the water pressure up to spec. It is probably more important in colder weather and colder water. I would replace it. I don't think you will find a automotive thermostat that will fit but I could be wrong.
 

mrn714

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 15, 2003
Messages
178
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

No auto thermostat matches that one. I have tried many. Must get a Suzuki part, about $15.00. Hope the info on the tear down, rebuild was ok. If the alarm goes off while in the water, may be time to run a test on the block to see if the thing is staying within temp range. If the water out of the foot is too hot to tuch, you may have a problem.
 

rbowen

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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
17
Re: 85 hp Suzuki issues

I called a dealer about getting the thermostat and he said, "just leave it out, thats what we do". I thought that was heck of a note from a certified Suzuki dealer but I've heard worse. I thought I would run this theory by ya'll and see what the up's and down's are to this. I appricate it.<br /><br />RB
 
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