fuel consumption / engine efficiency

glasply1

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Since I don't have a fuel flow meter, it seems like a comparison of my boat speed on the GPS with my engine rpm is the closest thing to determining optimum speed for maximizing miles per gallon. Any other ideas beyond not carrying excess fuel and gear? Thanks for your help. My wallet and I appreciate your ideas.
 

Mischief Managed

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

All you'll do with those two tools is determine what speed gives the least slip. Since you'll probably have the least slip at WOT cause the least amount of boat will be in the water at the tops speed, you won't gain much MPG data from the experiment. <br /><br />Boats are usually most efficient at idle and slow, or near the torque peak of the engine and "firmly on plane" (meaning not about to fall off plane). The torque peak is usually between 2800 and 3500 RPM on most of todays GM based gas I/Os. Whatcha got for a boat and power plant?
 

SwampNut

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

Fuel flow meters are under $200, worth considering.
 

jtexas

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

You can get a pretty accurate measurement of fuel consumed with a portable tank and a scale. Gallon of gas weighs approximately 6.2 pounds.
 

Solittle

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

For outboards your max fuel efficiency is going to be around 10-15% less than max RPM at WOT. Lots of other factors come in to play and one of them is what your engines like - it is an emotional thing for them. My V4s seem to be most happy around 46-4700 rpm. <br /><br />If you run 6 gallon tanks run one at WOT and note how much time it takes to run through the 6. Run a second tank at 10-15% less and note the difference in time.
 

glasply1

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

The boat is a 24' fiberglass hardtop with a minimal galley and is powered by a Chev 350 and a Volvo 280 outdrive. Estimated boat weight is 4,000 pounds. I usually run it at about 3250rpm which gives me 22-25mph, depending on currents, winds and prop size. WOT is about 4400rpm and about 35mph. At that speed you can hear OPEC members cheering me on. It seems that I get more top end speed with my larger prop, but faster (less important) starts with the smaller prop. Is my thinking in sync?
 

SwampNut

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

You need to size your prop appropriately for the boat, load, and engine. This means you should be in the "max RPM" range at normal load and full throttle. I couldn't figure out from your post if that was the case.<br /><br />If your prop is oversized, then you will probably go faster at cruise RPM, but it will no longer be at cruise loading; it will be overloaded. The penalties are fuel waste, excess wear, and possibly overheating.
 

Mischief Managed

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

That engine should probably top out around 4800 RPM. You may want to drop down 2 or 3 inches in propeller pitch.
 

Texasmark

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

If your hull has lifting strakes, the faster you go the less hull drag which should offset any reduction in engine efficiency. Also, trimming out the outdrive is very important to reduce the wetted area of the hull.<br /><br />However if you don't (have lifting strakes), then I'll agree with your OPEC comment.<br /><br />As stated, your "just over planing off" speed is probably better. Also, if this is where you run, you want the engine as lightly loaded as possible for maximum efficiency in your 4 cycle V8. This translates to more of a larger diameter, shallower pitched prop. You'll loose some top end but apparently you don't care.<br /><br />Just think about your car. If you run around with your foot in the carb your mileage really sucks. However, if you take it easy and let the engine come up to speed and all (hence light loading), your mileage is very much better.<br /><br />My 2c,<br /><br />Mark
 

QC

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

I disagree on a couple of points here as they pertain to 4 stroke I/Os. I would first, however, like to agree with most of Mischief's first post. The hull (when on plane) is most efficient where he says, just after going completely onto plane.<br /><br />Now to the disagreement, the fuel efficiency benefits are not because the engine is near peak torque RPM, it is most economical because the hull is most efficient at those speeds. Boat fuel economy and engine fuel efficiency are two very different things. In fact throttled, spark-ignited, engines are most fuel efficient at WOT. I didn't say WOT RPM, I said WOT. This is why all automotive manufacturers continue to gear wheeled vehicles higher and higher: to get the throttle open further at more points and most importantly at cruise speed. Lower RPM and the same load (vehicle speed) result in a wider open throttle, so there is less restriction in the intake stream and hence, higher fuel efficiency. Remember, this is engine, not boat, stuff.<br /><br />A point in fact is also noted by Mischief, almost all I/O combos are ultimately the most economical at engine idle speed. The fact is that this is the WORST point of throttled engine efficiency (throttle more closed than any other operating point other than off). Almost all hulls are most efficient at their "displacement speed", which just happens to be around idle speed in most combos. You see, hull efficiency is waaaaaaay more important than engine efficiency when it comes to boats.<br /><br />With the above said then, the fact is that if she is propped at the LOW end of the WOT RPM range (similar to what you have now), then it stands to reason that the RPM will be lower for the same efficient hull planing speed. With the throttle open a little wider (lower RPM and same load) you will receive slightly better fuel economy at that specific speed. And if propped within the WOT RPM window, theoretically the engine will not be overloaded at any speed (yes, I understand the overheat and overloading discussion, but again if within the WOT range, the boat should not have any issues at lower speeds). Yes, propping toward the higher end will make for a more flexible boat, but fuel efficiency if both props are equally efficient at a specific boat speed, will actually suffer slightly.<br /><br />I believe that you will get the most benefit by staying at the lower speeds (boat speed) you do now, probably slightly lower. If you check all of the test data you can find, you will see that most I/Os are most economical between 2500 and 3500 RPM, this again is not where the engines are most efficient necessarily, but where the various hulls are. If propped to the correct WOT RPM they are simply stuck with that RPM at the most efficient hull speed.<br /><br />I have posted similar stuff a number of times and it is usually beat up, but what I say is true from an engine efficiency standpoint. Most of the rest of the advice above is correct, but not necessarily for the reasons stated. Marine applications and peak torque have very little to do with each other. Prop load curves are relatively fixed AND there are no hills except the one you climb to get onto plane ;) <br /><br />Fact is, I doubt if you can make more than a 10% difference no matter what you do . . . The best way to save money is not to throw any at it that will never get paid back. This, of course, depends on how much you run the boat, but it takes a lot of fuel savings to pay back any new stuff. My .02<br /><br />Edit: Texasmark, you posted while I was still writing this, we are close to agreement based on his original question and info provided.
 

BillP

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

You are looking for best mpg right? That can be done simply by running known time, rpms, distance and fuel burned. A gps helps greatly. <br /><br />Otherwise, investing in a fuel mgt system will reap HUGE dividends by telling you immediately what your mpg is. And you will likely see fuel burn vary way more than 10%...20-30% is closer. It will pay for itself quickly.
 

QC

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

BillP,<br /><br />I meant 10% at the same boat speed, sorry if I wasn't clear. I totally agree that there is a big difference if we take all speeds into consideration, I would say more than 50% (4 MPG vs. 2 for example). How much $ is the management system you are referring to?
 

BillP

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

QC,<br />Agree with that. I was being conservative at 20-30% to cover the exceptions. I haven't priced systems lately but one of the NAVMANs with fuel sensor will give mpg and more...cost around $300-$350. <br /><br />I've been running on a friends boat with the Yamaha FM system and it really helps squeeze more range. It saves 1/2 mpg with minor speed changes at cruise speed...a change you wouldn't be able to dial in otherwise. We recently did a 200 mi day trip back from the Bahamas...gas was approx $5 gal. The savings were impressive.
 

QC

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

So let's say again that he saves 10% (remember, he already runs at what appears to be a reasonably efficient speed) by zeroing in on the perfect speed by spending $300. If he uses 30 gallons a trip today, he will save 3 gallons. Let's use the $5 per ($3.50ish on the water here). So he saves $15 per trip. He'd have the $300 back in 20 trips. For me that is probably 1 1/2 seasons. Not too bad, and I like toys ;) BTW, my real life customers are often looking for an 18 month payback as a threshold before buying stuff.<br /><br />Another way to look at it is it will take 600 gallons of use to get to the 60 gallons savings required (at $5 per gallon), so if he only uses 6 gallons per trip, then it will take 100 trips.<br /><br />Your Bahama trip sounds like around $35 in savings if you were around 3 MPG.
 

SwampNut

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

An 18 month ROI is always great. The fuel flow meter not only helps you be economical, but will help you be safer and will also alert you to engine/carb problems before they are severe enough to notice.<br /><br />I recently did some shopping for Floscan meters and am pretty sure a single engine setup can be had for under $200.
 

glasply1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

Thanks to all of you for your input. I'll probably just continue with my 22-25 mph which gives me sufficient time to see and adjust for the hazards in the water. Plus, what's the hurry? Other than using some sort of flow meter I can't really measure consumption. <br />One way I know I can increase my mpg is to not carry more gas than I need for my local outings. I also carry a few gallons for my 15hp kicker motor which also serves for trolling for salmon.<br />I especially appreciate the discussion of engine versus boat efficiency. Enlightening. Thank you very much.
 

BillP

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

Actually we were pushing 4+ mpg with twin 150 4 stroke outboards and that was the last leg of a 600 mile trip. A slight variation of speed took it down into the 3 mpg. Gas in the islands is 2X the price of it in the states so the savings aren't so big here on homewaters. However, we use boats here in FL more often than most and see the results faster. The FM lets you ID exactly where the "drag wall" is.<br /><br />For my small outboards mpg I use the gps for exact time, speed and distance. Then benchmark against a 6 gal tank marked for exact fill. After a few trips out I know the sweet spot to run in.
 

glasply1

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

As a related issue, how long (minutes) could I safely run the GM 350 at WTO without damaging the engine, assuming that the oil is what it should be and the cooling system is operating properly? I earlier said that the max rpm was 4400 rpm. Actually I think it is closer to 4600. Thanks for your comments.
 

QC

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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

According to the Operation manuals that I have read, you won't "damage" the engine by operating at WOT. The realted passage from a reasonably modern Merc Op manual is:<br /><br />After Break-In Period<br />To help extend the life of your Mercury MerCruiser power package, the following recommendations should be<br />considered;<br />• Use a propeller that allows the engine to operate at or near the top of the maximum rpm range (See<br />Specifications section) when at full throttle with a normal boat load.<br />• Operation at 3/4 throttle setting or lower is recommended. Refrain from prolonged operation at maximum (full<br />throttle) rpm.<br /><br />I am not sure what Volvo's recommendations were when your engine and drive were built.
 

glasply1

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Jan 20, 2006
Messages
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Re: fuel consumption / engine efficiency

My rough calculations on a 210 mile round trip showed about 2.5 mpg on my 24 foot heavy fg boat with the 350 engine at about 70% wot. Is that reasonable? What gas mileage do you get or don't you bother to calculate it?
 
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