Sinking Saga Continues

See this link for more history:<br /><br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013505;p=1#000013 <br /><br />Yesterday I got a letter from the insurance company outlining my settlement. To make a long story short - this is being considered a partial loss and therefore all internal machinery spaces are depreciated at a value of 85 percent!!!<br /><br />So, my 25K estimate for repairs is being depreciated down to about 17K. I called the insurance adjuster yesterday and she informed me that since the generator (total loss) is 17 years old, they will only pay for 15 percent of a new one, however if I could find and accept rebuilt units they will pay the claim in full.<br /><br />I also pointed out to her that there are still a number of open items that the surveyor and mechanic missed (various pumps, wiring harnesses, fire protection system, etc.). She tells me she has to talk to her people about this.<br /><br />When I pointed out that the mechanic only included 2500 for a subcontractor to repair the interior and my estimate is for 5000 dollars she said - well that's fine, you go ahead and get the interior fixed but we will depreciate our reimbursement to you by 90 percent.<br /><br />This is great! I'm sure glad I'm paying insurance premiums (sarcasim intended). Others have advised to contact an attorney - I really don't want to go this way, but I do want my boat either fixed properly, or totaled (which is really where we're at when you include the items that were overlooked). Why pay insurance when I am going to have to come out of pocket almost 10,000 dollars here?

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MackSea<br /><br />You will probably get a check from them very soon and in fine print in a letter or on the check it will state that you have excepted their settlement offer. Once you sign that you are all finished with negotiation.It is binding. <br />In my case it took 3 things for me to get the full value of what they owed me.<br /><br />1. I got very angry and determined to get what was fair<br />2. I was determined to go to court if neccessary<br />3. I got an (didn't want to) attorney<br /><br />It took 6 months of them sending checks for me to accept and the lawyer sending them back stating what i would except and we were 2 days from court when they called and offered me the total amount i wanted PLUS ATTORNEY FEES.<br /><br />By using an attorney I no longer had to deal with anyone and that realy allowed me to deal with the whole mess much better. He took care of getting second written opinions from experts on all cost that countered what the "INSURANCE COMPANIES PEOPLE" stated. that was what won this case.

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Insurance companies have zero motivation to give you what is fair. They will always try to get out the cheapest.<br /><br />This is after all, how they make money. They can either collect more, or try to reduce payout, or both. <br /><br />bdirect has some very good advice.<br /><br />Ken

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it sounds like a lot of this is from the type of insurance coverage <br /><br />i guess we all need to read are FINE print<br /><br /><br />tommays

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I don't understand the depreciation amounts. If it was on the boat & functioning, it's worth half the cost of new. The company I used to work for never depreciated anything more than 50%. Yes, even an old bald tire with the cords showing, got paid at 50% of new if it got damaged in an accident. You've got a BAD policy there. <br />Regarding the genny, find a reman, and get that cost added to the claim amount. Keep adding things to the claim, to get it to where they can call it a total loss. Get the labor up, labor shouldn't be depreciated, just actual parts.<br />That rep HAS to be mistaken on the "depreciation" amounts. What are the premiums of the policy based on? The ACV (actual cash value) of the boat or an agreed amount?<br />Also, on a homeowners policy, they are replacement cost, but you only get the ACV or depreciated amount until you actually fix it. Is that the case here?

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TilliamWe - you offered a lot of great suggestions on this topic a couple of weeks back, but I think tommays is right on - READ THE FINE PRINT. I'm not going to disclose names, but this is a VERY large insurance company - I purchased the insurance (agent) thru a very well known Boat Owners Association. The yacht policy is very clear - depreciation on soft goods (paint, fabric, etc.) starts on year 6, and on machinery spaces after year 11. For electrical items - such as the burned up AC and fridge, no depreciation. Just the wear out machinery - motors and generators. I'm not sure where they get their depreciation schedule from - as far as the 50 percent vs. 85 percent.<br /><br />I talked to the mechanic this morning and he tells me we'll have no issue finding a good year old rebuilt generator - this is the kicker - if I'm willing to take used parts - no depreciation, so I'll basically get all the stuff replaced without going out of pocket. <br /><br />I also spoke to the mechanic and insurance company about items not listed on the repair invoice and they are looking into those items. I just dont have the energy or time to fight this with the attorney.

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Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> Insurance companies have zero motivation to give you what is fair. They will always try to get out the cheapest.<br /><br />This is after all, how they make money. They can either collect more, or try to reduce payout, or both. <br /><br />Ken

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Actually, no that's not how they make money. Generally for every $1.00 in premium they take in, they pay out a little more than $1.00 in claims and expenses. It's called the combined ratio. They make money by collecting that $1.00 and earning interest on it until it's paid out.<br /><br />I'm no expert on these matters but in general it's best to look at as objectively as possible. One underlying principle of insurance is to get you back to where you were, one of the big companies acutally used that as a slogan a few years ago. For example without replacement coverage someone shouldn't have a 5 year old car replaced with a new one. <br /><br />Look at it the same way as a fair transaction when purchasing a boat. The dealer needs to make something and you want the best price possible. In this case you need to get back to where you were, and the insurance company, or more importantly the other policy holders can't afford to pay more than what is fair. <br /><br />That being said, just like in all business transactions there are companies and individuals that are going to take as much as they can get. The problem with insurance it that when you bought it, you bought the promise. Now that you need it you can't just walk away. If you sit down and objectively decide that when all is said and done you're out more than what your policy says it covers (not what you think is should cover) then yes, contact a lawyer. <br /><br />If you know a good one that you trust to give you honest answers it wouldn't hurt to contact one anyway just to get a legal perspective of what you policy covers. But be careful not to just contact anyone because they'll always tell you that you're getting screwed because they know in most cases that aren't multi million $ lawsuits, they will eventually get some sort of a settlement "plus legal expenses" just to have them go away. That doesn't help anyone but the attorney.

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One more piece of advice is that if you have specific concerns and can back them up with facts, you can take them to the claims agent. <br /><br />If they're decent they will work with you especially if have your facts straight, and even more so if you're clear that you want to work this out without getting a lawyer, but you're not afraid to do so if it comes to that.

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One last thought and i will say no more.<br />I had all of that fine print but when an expert places the value of something higher than what the insurance company says it is then you have a case. I am not schooled in law but one thing my attorny informed me of was this. "The Insurance Company is bound by law to repair your boat to the condition it was in before the accident or pay to you the fair value of the boat"<br /><br />So how does this work? Well lets say that their guy syas the gen-set purchsed 5 years ago is now worth x amount acording to their "fine print" Well my mechanic wrote a letter stating that many items were not of the "normal wear and tear " found on boats and that many items lsited in detail were in perfect and above average condition therefore in his expert opinion were were far more than their fine print figures. That is the kind of thing that gets looked at in front of a judge and not by the insurance companies.

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As all these lads have said.<br /><br />But ... you'll find that you're gonna have to get insistent and unbudging. And you're gonna have to make the running - pestering them again and again.<br /><br />The comment that you're usually insured so that you can get back to where you are before is true. I lost a boat in a surge, and recovered it. Saltwater - and it was possibly salvageable. The insurers offered me a pittance, so I rejected it and fought. It took half a year, but in the end I got what I wanted. <br /><br />They also made me sign a form saying I would never insure with them again!! Didn't take much thinking about!