COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Hello again, Started breakin last night with 1973 merc 200 20hp in tank and let her run at idle for an hour. Cooling perfectly and idled fine and checked compression with an increase of 15 psi using a ratio of 25-1. Pulled plugs and they were super wet. Carb when hot, adjusted to two turns out from seat.<br /><br />Took her out to the lake today and ran for another hour but variating speed from idle to 1/4 then to half throttle then back to idle. At 1/4 thottle she began choking and coughing, - yet at one half throttle she hummed along fine.Opened her a little above half and she buked and coughed then back to idle.<br /><br />Pulled plugs and they were super wet. Initially motor ran on the 50-1 mix leaned out to 1 1/8 turn out from seat. Should I lean her out or should I just put up with her and run her half throttle where she humms?? Runnig 25-1 first 6 gals then 50-1 second 6 gal.Thanks for your help.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

ryanc,I'd keep on doing what you are.Your post is confusing,until we realize the motor is 1973.Back then ignition systems were just growing.Today's motors can jump spark 7/16 ".Not back then.So if YOUR motor fouls a plug,it is not rare on double oil.If a 1993 motor fouled a plug I'd look for poor spark. DHP

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Confusing??? All I am trying to find out with this phase maker ignition is what can I do to compensate the 25-1 gas ratio that is fouling my plugs ????? <br /><br />All the info was typed above, I don't understand why you are confused. Wet plugs are cold foul at start but my plugs continue to stay wet even an hour later due to the 25-1 gas - oil ratio. I cannot compensate with carb as it is set at factory fot good. Thanks for the reply anyway.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

I have broke in numerouse 2 strokes old and new boats snowmachines ect: Ihave learned that a high quality 2 stroke oil like blue marble full synthetic with high octane works really great in the older boat motors, Ihave also used snowmachine oil with the power valve cleaner in it it works awesome against fouling plugs, DH is totally right about the ignition. The full synthetic allows for a leaner setting also without the fear of skirt piston damage. I run klotz racing gas in my snowmachine at one gallon to 12 plus full synthetic injection oil at 50-1 and have never fouled a plug. Granted the ignition is superior to that of a 1973 boat motor. If you are trying to break in this motor a good race fuel concentrate like klotz that has the premixed synthetic in it is the ticket. Imixed 1/2 gallon klotz to 5 gallons of raw gas you now have 6 gallon although you will mix this 50-1 as if you are mixing 5 gallons, It is the perfect break in and all out running mix not to mention the awesome milage you will gain. If you don't want to spend money on the klotz I would run a good full synthetic oil at 50-1 and lean her a little. Also buy the highest octane 93 whatever this is the advantage of the klotz concetrate it's 113 octane the mix above puts it at about 95-98 octane it works good with old ignitions and even worn out engines higher octane burns slower creating a clean burn not allowing unburned oil to collect on plugs and foul up the day. It works.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Hello coldwater, thanks for your reply. I added some "Outlaw" octane booster to the gas-oil mix and reduced my oil from 25-1 to 34-1.<br /><br />The motor seemed to fire better except in low rpm but now my pee hole water has gotten warm when it is to run cold. <br /><br />I am running a penzoil 2 cycle synthetic oil which I use in all my two cycled motors.<br /><br />Seems the higher octane will give better spark but also increases cyclinder temp due to stronger detonation??? thus producing more heat.<br /><br />Right??? thanks for reply

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

reset floats... she is flooding <br />octane/oil has nothin 2 do with it IMHO.<br />good luck,<br />M.Y.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Thanks mellow yellow, already had done that, carb rebuilt. What is IMHO???

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

IMHO<br /> in my humble opinion.<br /> IMNSHO<br /> in my not so humble opinion, you still have motor problems. oil/octane wont cure it. the motor will run forver on wally world oil and 87 octane. you have a pacthed up bugger bear frankenrig. some of us professional wrenches have given advice which you either totally ignore or act like we are the dumb ones. fix the fuel syatem and double check the spark on both cylinders. you dont see much in the way of breakin procedures that say run it in a barrel for an hour. if you did not install new pistons on rebored cylinders I would not worry about any breakin as there is nothing to breakin.<br /> good luck and keep posting but like MW says. ya got fuel/ign problems

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Rodbolt, <br /> you should not assume ,to begin with the motor has new rings, bearings and has been honed FYI. Futhermore your expertise does not make you a TEACHER, as a teacher has patience and is not arrogant with their students but rather maintaining self control. It's hard to be humble when YOU are so PERFECT. <br /><br />Calling my motor a frankinrig and patch bear ect is somewhat immature.<br /><br /> If you recall it was I who paged you in reference to you having a couple of Merc 200 20hp motors which you said you were willing to talk about getting rid of, yet you did not follow through with your words nor would you answer your page.<br /><br /> Nevertheless, I checked the whole ignition system which was fine and as well the float which too was fine but I did find my idle valve was not seated correctly.<br /><br />As for your pride I can only say it will lead you to a fall. You would do well to learn what humbleness is and as well to practice it and keep up with the words you speak and or vow. No one likes hypocrisy.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

dude<br /> your the chop buster<br /> I never saw anything and the two old 20's are still laying out back.<br /> you have to do the entire job. I have been following all your posts . I just dont reply to many but I thought you were short with melloyellow and some others. I am not a teacher. I am a professional marine tech. my services are billed at 68 to 85 per hour and some mobile cases at 100 per hour. I dont work on to many 1973 motors anymore. most here have long since corroded away. however I have and still can.<br /> I can also bore,grind cranks and do valve jobs. I have had more technical training than a lot of engineers have had college. so I am not prideful. I dont mean to be. but 25 to one was a normal mix rate for years and we did not foul plugs, your motor has a problem. the 25 to one wont increase compression. if it does you really really have a problem. compression should be checked with a warm engine and the throttle at WOT. it should be within 10 psi highest to lowest and usually something more than 75 psi. at 60 psi it wont run. 2 strokes will load up when idling.<br /> and excessive oil can contribute to cold fouling. cold fouling looks like black tar on the porcelin part of the electrode.trust me and mellow. you have a carb/fuel pump problem. although it is possible to have a broken wire from the stator that breaks up when the stator moves.<br /> but no i am not just prideful. I think its great you and your son are working on a motor together. I do however think you should study more on how and why the various subsytems of a motor work.<br /> good luck and keep posting and I apologize for any offence

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Rodbolt.. <br /><br /> I may be willing to buy 1 motor for a extra foot and some extra parts. If you are willing to chat about 1 in good shape to sell, e-mail me at remnant333@hotmail.com <br /> <br /> thanks robert/ryan

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Rodbolt, thank you for your reply, no offense intended here as well. <br /><br /> We are thankful for you as well as many others who have given their time and shared thier expertise with those who mostly could not afford to pay your hourly wage. We for one, are very grateful.<br /><br /> I am sure it must be frustrating for all the techs at times but sometimes we need to walk in the othersides shoes. We have made every mistake that can be made assembling and disassembling this motor. With two power heads we have put rings in twice, chaged powerheads three times and becasue of base plate gaskets being put in upside down we had to remove the power head again. In all, we have torn it down five times not to mention the carb two times.<br /><br /> Perserverance is our only virtue and at times I think we were too dumb to give up. We have had many replies to our problems and as well we have been misguided a couple of times. Nothing perfect in this old world.<br /><br /> Any way, we appreciate your time,effort and commend you for helping others free of charge.<br /><br /> As for the motor since we got the idle ajustment screw seated right she began running totally different but still a problem.<br /><br /> From idle to 1/4 throttle she still sputters but after 1/4 throttle she starts to hum and its up up and away we go. She idles fine but starting off out of the hole she does nothing but sputter. Perhaps she needs to be leaned out a little more?? Thanks for your time and directions.//robert/ryan

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

hello<br /> cant buy and sell here<br /><br /> its almost not worth the shipping. the one has no lower unit but ran well 13 years ago. I have no clue now. it was my late uncles motor. one is a 20 or 25 that is about 73 or 74 and the last one I know nothing about and took it in as a trade on a 15 about 8 years ago. its a 20 of about a 72 or 73 vintage<br /><br /> I just went back and read all your posts since jan 04. sorry I missed your page. that was the week I was out of town and in and out due to my father having alung removed. but you have shotgunned the motor repair. I even missed clams dig with the dingleberry deal. I am still laughing. that was funny. you need to carefully check the timing. use an inductive automotive type light with a 12v battery. you need to carefully inspect the carb/fuel pump for malfunctions or debris. you would not belive the braekin things I have seen and been told "its just the breakin mix". 25-1 will cause more smoke at low speeds and if run enough years may cause some carbon problems. email me if ya want at rodbolt40@yahoo.com.<br />what is your compression now? remember if its flooding the excess liquid will cause an increase in compression.<br /> good luck and keep posting

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Im going to jump in here, as I have been following this from the start. My intention is not to cause a stir, but I probably am!<br /><br />Coldwaters sugestions (even though he claims to have "broken in" several engines) Are way out there in my opinion. First, you shouldnt use a synthetic, either semi or full to break in any engine, Second, using a racing fuel in an outboard is just a waist of money and can cause carbon buldup in its own right, Third, using a snowmobil type oil in an ouboard is wrong as they do not get hot enough to fully burn off and you are going to have all kinds of goo running down your motor.<br /><br />Now Ive said it, FLAME ON!

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Thanks Lube Dude for your reply, <br /><br /> I didn't follow Coldwaters instructions other than some octane booster which didn't seem to make any difference. I thought the higher octane might lean out the mixture a little, but idle screw was the problem all along.<br /><br /> We broke in a brand new 8 hp nissan two years ago with normal gas and oil @ 25-1. Racing fuel/ high octane/ and full synthetic oil was not pointed out to be beneficial in breakin.<br /><br /> Anyway, racing fuel with 50 -1 mix didn't seem very logical . I am sure others will agree with you and what the norm should be. thanks again

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Lube dude, I was just wondering wht wouldn't you use a synthetic blend during a break in on motor, or even full synthetic, not enough friction??<br /><br />A fellow who owns a shop told me to cut down break in time that after first 6 gals of gas go to 50-1 and add ATF in the amt of differnce in 24-1. Ever heard of that??? thanks again

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Synthetic oils offer a very high resistance to friction, For break in you want the rings to seat and they will not if they cant make some contact with the cyliders. <br /><br />Ive never heard of the ATF thing, but there are about as many break in procedures out there flowing around as there is hair on a dog. As for breakin on an outboard I would follow manufacture recomendation to the tee! Breakin is still taking place after you stop the 24:1. Run it easy on the first 50:1 tank also. Then you are ok to go BTTW.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

Thanks lube dude, I have really become weary of short cuts at this point. I'll stick with normal procedures. thanks for your imput.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

LubeDude, I do have an honest ? on semi-synthetic for break-in. I thought semi-synthetics were actually just a petro-based oil with some component broken down to make them run cleaner? I would think a semi would break in the same as a reg. petro oil. I may just be really confused on this.

Re: COLD FOUL PLUGS @ 25-1 breakin

I can understand the confusion, and you are somewhat right. The semi synthetics as far as I have been able to figure out, all are petro oils conbined with a group three synthetic. Group three synthetics are hydrocracked, highly refined petro oils. However, they still are sliperier than conventional oil and would not let the rings come into contact enough, (in my opinion) to do a proper break in!