E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

walleyehed

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Hey guys! Spent the weekend in the Rockies after Christmas, and visited the Lake Dillon Marina, just checkin' things out, and guess what???? The Bomb had given them 2 E-TECS last spring.....a 50, and a 75. I got the oportunity to set down with one of the tecs, and the marina owner and resident Guru...<br />Very interesting visit which they were very free with the info. I'll try to post all I can remember...<br />First off, Bomb chose Lake dillon because of 9100ft above sea-level, and the extreme cold.<br />The 50 was put on a 22ft pontoon boat (Rental) and the 75 was put on a retrieval boat, 18ft fiberglass shallow V.<br /> They said they really enjoyed the engines this last summer, and are by far quieter than any 4-stroke at WOT. <br /> The one problem they relayed to Bomb was that the oil tank on the 50 was too small..(It sets in the left rear corner under the hood). Running 10-12 hours a day, they were adding oil every other day.<br />After about 300+ hours, they siezed the 50hp due to an oil line that is routed "Through" the molding of the oil tank, came out of the molding and got pinched in the hood latch. This was not the first to do this they were told by Bomb. They now have clips that hold the lines in place to the tank.<br />They said all in all they did nothing else to the 50hp.<br />The 75HP I am told, will outperform a 2001 90 DFI.....Hey, this gent runs the place and I made it very clear I had no intensions of purchasing, so I think both guys were being straight.<br /> The tech there said a dealer in Denver had a 90hp through the summer, and Bomb asked him to take it to Dillon to run it too at High altitude. the boat was left for 3 weeks at Dillon and they sent it out to be abused as much as any.<br />180 some hrs on the 90, and Bomb shipped them a 100HP E-TEC...yes, you heard me right, and I seen it AND the box it came in....<br />Here's the interesting part...the 100 is not a de-tune, the tech said Bomb told him the E-TECS are capable of 100HP per cylinder in actual conditions for the consumer market, but aren't going that route at this point. The tech was showing me how the new oil-line connectors work on the oil tank, and there is a brass ferral inside the tube that just "plugs in". I asked him why only 2 of the 6 ports had holes....then it hit me...maybe they have a 6cyl. He laughed and said "yes, I have seen the 225HP E-TEC in the back of a trailer when they delivered the 100". He also mentioned they are having a hard time building a 4 cylinder model that will stay together and are concentrating on the 6 cylinder at this time, and thats all they would tell him.<br />Very nice people there in Dillon and a great oportunity to get my greasy hands on one, and to actually see it apart was Great!! Bad deal about the oil hose getting pinched, and by the way, the warning horn did go off, but the renter of the boat had no idea as to what it meant and continued on. I was told the production engines had a kill feature that was supposed to be added for 2004, and he thought it could be over-ridden by a computor part that plugged into the computor on the eng....which brings me to another item I remember him saying....The Ficht Ram oil was NOT sufficient for the E-TEC, and last summer they had no E-TEC oil for them to run, and I guess that has caused some sensor problems that are still being worked out.<br />Both the owner of the dealership and the tech loved the gearcases for the simple proping issues, as the 50 E-TEC uses the same prop (14X13) as the 90hp ficht....REMEMBER this is over 9000ft in elevation.<br />I got some VERY interesting info on jetting and timing for carbed models used at altitudes above 3000-12,000ft. OMC had been, and Bomb IS testing here,(for high altitude use) OMC did for years on jetting....Had some interesting things to say about the 97-2002 Fichts that I didn't know included the 2002, but does....and got to see why, first hand.
 

Cricket Too

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

Sounds pretty cool Kenny. I'm going to the New York National Boat Show this week, hopefuly I will get to see some E-TEC's and get to talk to some factory guys also.
 

walleyehed

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

mmcpeck, If you think about it, ask what they have for oil for the E-TECS now, and if it can be used in anything else.....The guys at Dillon thought it would cover all applications, but they had not recieved any yet, but they did order 9 more E-TECS.....5-50's, 2-75's, and 2-90's. :)
 

Cricket Too

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

Kenny....Will do, I'm going on Fri.,possibly sooner, but I will ask and let you know what they said. The dealer that I bought my Ficht from 3 years ago will be there and I'm sure he'll have some E-TEC's, so he should know. Hopefully there will be some Evinrude people there as well. Talk to you later.
 

Cricket Too

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

Kenny.....Went to the show today, and after much searching and asking I finally found the J/E booth. It was, to say the least, a big letdown compared to the other companies there. Merc, Yami, Honda and Suzuki all had huge displays with at least 20 motors and reps, and J/E had a closet with 6 motors, 4 of which were the regular DI Evinrudes, one was a Suzuki 4 stroke that they didn't even have the cover off of so you couldn't see the powerhead and finally a 75hp E-TEC, with the cover off. <br />Spoke to 1 of the 2 reps there and he said they had come out with an E-TEC oil and he also said that he had never heard of any problems with the Ram oil in the E-TEC's and said the Ficht Ram oil would work fine as long as you set up the ECM for it, then he proceeded to tell me that the Ficht Ram oil was only part synthetic and not full but the new E-TECH oil was a full synthetic, which confused me because I always thought that the Ram oil was full. I asked him if the Ram oil was fine with no problems why did they come out with the E-TEC oil and he kind of danced around that question and brought up the synthetic discussion again. He did seem to be relatively knowledgable about the motors though and told me they still have not come out with a V4 but could not give me a reason why. Anyway the motor pretty much spoke for itself and I was impressed and excited to see it, I picked up some factory literature to read, but even though I love J/E products and have no plans to stray, I was very dissapointed in the setup they had and was nothing but impressed with what the competitors had setup, live presentations, movies, cutouts of powerheads much better literature and many more reps that just wanted to talk shop and were very enthusiastic about their product. J/E might as well have not shown up and in many ways thet didn't and I can't figure out why. Bummer. Talk to you later, Mike.
 

seahorse5

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

mmcpeck,<br /><br />From the factory, the E-TECs come programmed for regular TC-W3 oil, preferably Ram oil. The dealer, using a PDA, can set the engine's computer to use their XD-100 synthetic oil at half the normal rate of the dino oil consumption.<br /><br />Ram oil (XD-50) has always been advertised to be a partial synthetic, and BioD was the full synthetic (now called XD-100)<br /><br />I'll be they were sales folks at the booth, and not techs. I understand that Bombardier will have a large display and a few surprises at the Miami Boat show in Feb. Due to the dates of the NY show, a lot of manufacurer's are unhappy and did not go "all out" like they will for Miami.
 

walleyehed

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

mmcpeck and seahorse, the tech at Dillon was showing me where they "plug-in" on the E-TEC to set-up what ever they do???, and putting 2 and 2 together tells me they never intended to run Ficht Ram, and thats why the dealer said if they were going to continue Ram oil, they needed a bigger oil tank......It would make sense that it was originally designed to be run at 100:1, or some leaner ratio. That explains why they were adding oil every other Day. He didn't say how big the oil tank was, but 20-22hrs and it needed refilled.<br />I for one, will always be a J/E fan and I hope it all works out.<br />The questions on the Ficht Ram...If he was a dealer and not a Bomb tech, I doubt he would know about the full story, as far as why the Ficht Ram wasn't really what they wanted to use.<br />The fact I was most impressed with was that these engines can produce up to 100hp per cylinder if programmed because of the structural integrety of the components used, so why not just skip the V4's altogether???<br />If I had the money, I'd try a 90 just based on the testing they got to do with the 75 and 90 at Dillon....but I don't have the cash, so I'm looking for a 60 deg. V6 Project engine...Oh well...we'll see what happens this spring.<br /><br />Edit: The XD-25 is 10% syn, the Ficht Ram I "think" is 50-50, so I'd like to know if the XD-100 can be used as pre-mix as well......
 

seahorse5

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

I believe the 40 and 50 hold 2 quarts of oil, 3 quarts on the 75-90hp E-TECS.<br /><br />Ram oil and Yamahalube 2-M use some polyisobutylene as a synthetic base oil along with different grades of dino base oils, then they add the additive package. The PIB base oil cuts down on carbon formation and smoke, thus making a less expensive oil than fully synthetic, yet has a lot of the advantages. Merc Premium Plus oil has a small amount of PIB, but not very much, as does Pennzoil Synthetic Blend. <br /><br />XD-100 can be used in oil injected outboards or as a pre-mix lube according to Bombardier. The advantage in the E-TEC is because of its better lubricating qualities, it can be programmed to use about 1/2 the amount as it would with TC-W3 oils.
 

Cricket Too

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

walleyehed and seahorse...Thanks, you explained the oil alot better than this guy did. I did ask if he was a tech and he said he wasn't but was a factory rep, which I took to be a salesman. Seahorse your correct about the oil tank capacities on the 75 and 90, he did tell me that the tank holds 3 quarts and the 40 and 50 hold 2. And I forgot to add something that walleyehed said about the oil consumption, he did say that if you used the PDA to adjust the ECM for FICHT oil it would use more but the oil costs less and the E-TEC oil costs more but it uses alot less. I believe he said they estimate 50 -55 hours on the 3 quart tank that the 75 has. He said he had a guy test one last week and the guy went from his dealer and along the coast of Long Island for about 25-30 miles and back and the 75hp E-TEC used about 3 gallons of gas and barely mad a dent in the oil tank. I was pretty impressed by that, but considering that he said a 75hp E-TEC right now goes for about $8,000, and considering that right now I have gas guzzling twin 200's that I was thinking of replacing in a year or two and they don't even offer that hp in E-TEC yet, I think I'll be waiting for a while before I get one. Take it easy, Mike.
 

walleyehed

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

Anyone seen a cost on the XD-100 yet????????
 

MIKE F

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

I remember seeing promos a while back for E-TEC engines stating that many boaters would be able to go through a whole season on one tank of oil. That sounds like a good deal, especially at $34.95 a gallon. :D
 

Tracy Coleman

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

"A whole season" based on national average of 35-50 hour per season for the average boater. XD-100 oil at $34.95 a gallon is cheaper in an E-TEC than Ram oil (now XD-50) in a 50 to 1 motor. Keep your expectations "real" based on Your usage and not national averages, more or less.<br />Backfire ;)
 

Forktail

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

It cracks me up every time an Evinrude dealer-sort like John chimes in with this Yukon E-TEC story. :rolleyes: <br /><br />This isn't some unbiased average Joe telling you what he thinks about his outboard....<br /><br />Tommy Kriska, the guy who "tested" this E-TEC on the Yukon, is sponsored by Bombardier (Ski-doo) in the Iron Dog snowmobile race. The Iron Dog is famous for being the longest snowmobile race in the world. Gee, is that a Bombardier Evinrude E-TEC cap and jacket he's wearing? Does that boat say "New Evinrude E-TEC" across the side of it? Mr. Kriska is not unfamiliar with Bombardier's sponsorship and advertising perks. I'll take what he (supposedly) says as advertising hype.<br /><br />All that aside, I suppose if you've never been on the Yukon, it looks like a big deal. Great selling point for dealers in Illinois, I'm sure. The problem is that people have been using all types of outboards, day in and day out on the Yukon River, under these conditions, for decades. You'll find some real oldie outboards being run every day. Sure, it's a good step for the E-TEC indeed, but hardly bragging rights. <br /><br />Tommy Kriska - "Everybody else had carb-icing, or had to sit with their 4 strokers for a long time before they could go anywhere. I was long gone by the time they finally pulled away from the riverbank."<br /><br />Right....those EFI 4-strokes ice their carbs all the time, and they spit, cough, and take forever to warm up. :rolleyes: <br /><br />I've used my F115's on the Yukon during fall moose hunts in temps way colder than 13F. And I've never experienced any of those symptoms. Seen plenty of old 2-stroke carbs doing very well too. <br /><br />Tommy Kriska - "has more power than what we're used to...seems to carry my loads easier than even my old 75hp did. I have to keep reminding myself it's just a 50hp."<br /><br />Truly spectacular. Dropped 25 horsepower and got more horsepower. :rolleyes: <br /><br />IMO, posts like John's do more harm for the new product than good. Best thing would be for the E-TEC to prove itself without stories from someone who $benefits$.
 

jegervais

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

Tommy Kriska, the guy who "tested" this E-TEC on the Yukon, is sponsored by Bombardier (Ski-doo) in the Iron Dog snowmobile race. The Iron Dog is famous for being the longest snowmobile race in the world.
SO? Who cares? It's not about sponsorship, it's about the "test".<br /><br />
Gee, is that a Bombardier Evinrude E-TEC cap and jacket he's wearing? Does that boat say "New Evinrude E-TEC" across the side of it?
Sure is. Wouldn't you wear any "perk" clothing a dealer or manufacturer gave you? <br />Because of its quietness and smooth running, likely everyone he encountered assumed it was a 4-stroke??<br /><br />
This isn't some unbiased average Joe telling you what he thinks about his outboard....<br />
Nope, it's not. But he is comparing it to the 75 Yamaha 4-stroke it replaced.<br /><br />
...day in and day out on the Yukon River, under these conditions, for decades. You'll find some real oldie outboards being run every day. Sure, it's a good step for the E-TEC indeed, but hardly bragging rights.
Same here in the upper Midwest. We service a number of 40's & 50" outboards every year. A good step, I agree. Bragging rights? I don't see this story has a link anywhere on the Evinrude site...<br /><br />
Right....those EFI 4-strokes ice their carbs all the time, and they spit, cough, and take forever to warm up.
I'm sure the EFI's don't have that problem. However, The Yammie 90 & smaller engines aren't EFI, they're carbureted, as are the Hondas 90hp & smaller. Merc as well as Johnson & Suzuki offer EFI 4-strokes below 115hp. Not all 4-strokes are EFI (yet).<br /><br />Although not part of the story on Compeaus web site, I find it pretty neat that the engine went on the boat in Fairbanks and Tommy fired it up and made a several hundred mile trip (by river) home the same day (and into the night). Maybe that is an everyday occurence in the Yukon, it is however (again) another "step in the right direction".
 

Terry H

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

John...if the E-Tech can handle the conditions on the Yukon year in and year out, it will truly be a fine piece of machinery. A great place to test a new product...only wish they had sent me there to do the test...just a Thought
 

Forktail

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

Great sales pitch John. You sell E-TECs at your dealership, right?<br /><br />
SO? Who cares?
Anyone who wants to know how the E-TEC is doing without all the advertising hype.<br /><br />
It's not about sponsorship, it's about the "test".
No test is legitimate if it's done by someone who $benefits$ from doing the test. Its called bias. <br /><br />Besides, this report doesn't represent itself as a "test". It represents itself as an average Joe using an outboard. An that my friend is not the case, as Tommy Kriska obviously has racing and sponsorship experience with Bombardier, and he is receiving perks from his dealer and Bombardier.<br /><br />
Wouldn't you wear any "perk" clothing a dealer or manufacturer gave you?
You mean if I was advertising for them?<br /><br />
But he is comparing it to the 75 Yamaha 4-stroke it replaced.
...and he also claims the new 50 hp has more power than Yamaha's new (2003) 75 hp. I haven't figured out how that is possible, but it would certainly sell motors to people who didn't know any better. So I guess I better dump my 75's for these new miracle 50's. :rolleyes: <br /><br />
Same here in the upper Midwest.
Are you seriously comparing outboards being run in the "upper Midwest" to those run in Alaska's/Canada's Yukon River?<br /><br />The Yukon River is the only access to many villages in Alaska. Some, thousands of miles from road. Many outboards have been running these routes for years. The fact the E-TEC is doing it is hardly cause for alarm. <br /><br />Again, it probably sounds like a fantastic selling point for a dealer in Illinois, who has never even been on the Yukon and seen all the old 2-strokers running hundreds of miles every day.<br /><br />
Bragging rights? I don't see this story has a link anywhere on the Evinrude site...
There's only one reason dealers like yourself are posting this story here. We've seen it before, and you've commented on it before. Go figure.<br /><br />
I'm sure the EFI's don't have that problem.
And neither do most non-EFI 4-strokes or other DFI 2-strokes. But Tommy Kriska isn't going to tell you how well the EFI 4-strokes or other DFI's operate, or how few icing problems there really are with outboard carbs. He wants you to think the E-TEC is the best.<br /><br />EFI 4-strokes and DFI 2-strokes are available from 300 hp down to 40 hp. None of which will have carburetors.<br /><br />
I find it pretty neat that the engine went on the boat in Fairbanks and Tommy fired it up and made a several hundred mile trip (by river) home the same day (and into the night).
That's how we do it. There are no roads to these areas. You should get out more.<br /><br />
Maybe that is an everyday occurence in the Yukon
Yep. Sure is. E-TEC or not.<br /><br />I know you hate seeing the "rest of the story" John. But you did post that article...for some reason.
 

Forktail

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Re: E-TEC.....Hands-on in Dillon Colorado....

Thought101, the only problem I see with the Yukon report is that most all outboards run in these conditions without problems, and they have been doing so for decades. Although silty and cold, the Yukon is fresh water. I would hope the E-TEC could run reliably like the others.<br /><br />I'd like to see results from lengthy commercial saltwater use, by someone unaffiliated with Bombardier or a Bombardier dealer.
 
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