Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Jamesdean

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Oct 7, 2005
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I have a 1974 50hp Johnson, It wont stay idling, and after you start it a few times and keep it running with the warm up lever it is hard to get started again. Also when you get it running and go to full throttle it sounds like it is starving, it is bogging. The top carb seems to be blowing air and gas out as the bottom carb sucks air and gas in. Carbs where cleaned plugs changed pretty much a good oil change and tune up.
 

Solittle

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

A big WELCOME!!!!<br /><br />Describe in detail how you cleaned the carbs and did you use the OMC shop manual?
 

Jamesdean

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

The carbs where completely dismantled and soaked in carb cleaner, my father did them, not sure if he used the manual, he is better than I when it comes to carbs. Thank you for the big welcome, very appreciated.
 

MCM

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Hi James,<br /><br />If the carbs were dismantled and old gaskets were used to reasemble that leaves the possibility of a vacuum leak, <br /><br />Has this acted this way since the "tune up"? or were you having problems before?<br /><br />Mike :)
 

Jamesdean

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Well the boat sat for a year. The gaskets are good. I did all this work on the motor before I ran it after it sat. It was running good before it sat.
 

danefish

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Hi All, Great site! Great minds thnk alike. My son and I recently found this site for help/reference-carb diagram and I have read and searched old posts. (I'm dad)<br />I just joined this site to post and looks like he beat me to it. This 1974 50 hp, the top carb does not steadily suck air like the bottom carb does. If I hold my fingers in front of the choke, I feel more of back and forth flutter of air instead of a steady suck. My wild guess is reeds. We were told motor sat 2 years (woman owned it) and she thought it ran good. (hhmmm, how big is a grain of salt?). <br /><br />Compression checked and looks good.<br /> Top carb spits some gas at higher rmp but does not pop. It just plain needs to suck air. <br />WOT, Motor just seems like it is pulling a 400lb water skier, RPM not up, bogs and just won't plane out. We have only tested it on the lake twice for a few minutes for fear of damage (lean).<br /><br />Floats turn off gas flow normally. Does not leak or flood. Seems to be plenty of gas and quick hand choke under load does not help.<br /><br />Carb does not have high speed jets but has fluted tube from bowl to ventura. All 4 flute holes are clean, as whole carb been dipped and cleaned and blown out. Thought about trying a rebuild kit first(easier and cheaper than replacing reeds). Whatdoyathink? I'm just guessing here so thanks in advance for the help.
 

G DANE

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

An additional welcome to dad !!<br /><br />Yes, those carbs have high-speed jets, they are located in the bowl, just behind the drain screw. It initial for a good carb cleaning on those carbs, expecially after motor sat for years, that carbs are taken fully apart, free of any plastic and rubber part, and soaked over night in carb cleaning solvent. Pay special attention to all jets, especially the small orifices just above throttle butterfly, eentually carefully run a small wire or a steel hair from a wire brush thru them. Make sure every internal edge of carb is spotless. When carbs are off you can actually visually inspect that all reed blades are there, and seating. When put back on, carbs should be syncronized and sync'n linck readjusted, you will need the manual for that. This procedure is essential.
 

danefish

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

I looked at the carb diagram 1974 50 hp<br /> http://epc.brp.com/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=E <br />and inspected all through carb, I could not find a high speed jet. I looked for a screw-in jet, I will look again. I did soak them overnight in gallon size carb/parts cleaner. Removed bowls and soaked separately (did not soak gaskets). Brushed out any discolored area till shiny like new, inside and out (only had a small amount discoloration in bottom of bowl). Sprayed carb cleaner thru low speed jet and intake orifices into bowl area. I have small piano wire so I will poke it thru every orifice that I can find even though I blew it out with compressor. <br /><br />Gas comes into bowl, is stopped by float when full (float parallel to carb when upside down), float stops fuel into bowl (closes properly). It is very possible I missed HS jet but from the bowl, there is a fluted tube from ventura that goes into gas in bowl and no jet in it. (My personal 1986 200 Johnson motor has a high speed jet screwed into this tube from bowl to ventura) This carb does not have this HS jet inside the tube). I assumed flow of air thru ventura created vacuum to suck gas into carb thru this fluted tube. The more the throttle open, the more butterfly open, the more vacuum to pull more gas thru fluted tube.<br /><br /><br />When I pulled carbs, linkage was not moved since linkage is a slide in/snap in from carb to carb (assume it was correct to start) When running, I stuck fingers in carbs and butterflies felt that they moved in unison from idle (closed) to WOT and seemed to move in unison, same positioning thru full movement. I will purchase manual as I have one for my old 200 Johnson and would be lost without it. I am not a mechanic by trade, only by necessity.<br />From Dane to Dane, I thank you a lot for the advise and the welcome. I will pull carb again and let you know the results (but I say no high speed jet) , till I find the dang thing.<br />THANKS!
 

MCM

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Hi danefish, <br /><br />I have a '75 50hp the carb on your motor does have a h/s jet, see this link for a diag. of your carb<br /><br /> http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/js...~A0000022~M0016920~M0016933~M0016935~C0252443 <br /><br />The h/s jet is part #35 on the diag, its hidden behind the screw plug #36,<br /><br />Graet choice on getting the manual, I'd be lost w/out mine too.<br /><br />Hope this helps,<br />Mike ;)
 

MCM

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

As far as a manual goes I ran across this when I was looking for a replacement manual for my motor.<br /><br />I'm not sure if you're famliliar w/Ebay but here it is.<br /><br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974...579751951QQcategoryZ26453QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem <br /><br />Also here is an old post from Joe Reeves on carb adjustment for that motor<br /><br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=036900#000004 <br /><br />Good Luck,<br />Mike
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Besides manually cleaning the brass fixed high speed jet that is located in the bottom center portion of the float chamber, in back of that 7/16" hex head/slotted bolt. I strongly suggest the following.<br /><br />That you remove the intake manifold in order to visually inspect the intake reed valve assembly, and also while you have it off, replace the gasket that is between the reed valves and the manifold. That gasket has been known to deteriorate with the gas/oil mixture and will lead to weird happenings.<br /><br />(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)<br />(J. Reeves)<br /><br />Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.<br /> <br />Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running.<br /> <br />Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting. <br /> <br />Note: As a final double check setting of the slow speed valve(s), if the engine has more than one carburetor, do not attempt to gradually adjust all of the valves/carburetors at the same time. Do one at a time until you hit the above response (die out or spit back), then go on to the next valve/carburetor. It may be necessary to back out "all" of the slow speed adjustable needle valves 1/8 turn before doing this final adjustment due to the fact that one of the valves might be initially set ever so slightly lean.<br /><br />When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.
 

danefish

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Oct 8, 2005
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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Well, my son called and woke me up that he found the high speed jet....(last time I post with my son knowing...)<br />We THANK you Mike, GDane, Joe and solittle for the quick responses and spelling it out slowly for me. The "number 36" and diagram SHouLd have even helped me find it. (Mike, would you say this manual from EBay is better than -off the shelf chilten-like manuals that cover wide range of similar motors) Thanks for the links too.<br /><br />I will not write a book this time.. Hopefully we will let you know the final outcome without bugging you all again for your expertise. Too bad others would not be able to use this exact info (how many 74 50s are left?)<br />Yeehoo, back out to the lake for a test. (where's the coffee..)<br />Thanks,<br />Dane
 

danefish

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Oct 8, 2005
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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

Thanks again to all. Update, my son was able to "show" me where the hs jets are..(lol). (Why do they stick jets in the bowls?) Don't answer, with my limited experience, I clean the "bowl", then set it aside to work on the "Carburetor". The problemed carb did have dirty hs jet. We cleaned all and the motor ran better, both carbs sucked air without any flutter and could see plenty of gas at WOT.<br />The motor still does not idle well and stalls at low rpm. We had already replaced the red nylon seals around ls jets and adjusted but I believe we need rebuild kits (has old cork gaskets)<br />Main thing is that it just will not plane out 16 ft thundercraft. We have low expectations, maybe 25mph but it should plane out. I believe we have decided to take it to a qualified mechanic. Not sure if timing/prop/carbs/adjustments. We just want to get out and fish..<br />Thanks,<br />Dane
 

MCM

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Re: Hard to stay idle, bogs at full throttle…..

danefish, the OEM manual is specific to your motor,<br />other manuals such as Seloc, Clymers etc. are O.K. BUT i think they try to cover to many motors (to generalized) to go in depth on any particular motor<br /><br />As far as your boat/motor combination I've got a '75 50 hp on a '68 15.5 ft. starcraft, not only does it plane out but it gets there quick.<br /><br />Once you get the motor running right see what your WOT ends up at, you may want to change props.<br /><br />Good Luck,<br />Mike ;)
 
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